George William Bartle

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Lyndseymarie
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George William Bartle

Postby Lyndseymarie » Wed 05 Sep, 2018 1:36 am

Hi, I know this is a long shot given these were posted in 2008, but does anyone know anymore on William Bartle?
I’m trying to find my Grandma’s birth father and on his marriage certificate it says that his father was a police sergeant, Robert William bartle (he was also a bigamst so it’s quite possible he switched his father’s first and middle names.
Thanks,
Lyndsey
Lyndseymarie
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Joined: Wed 05 Sep, 2018 1:29 am

Re:

Postby Lyndseymarie » Wed 05 Sep, 2018 1:39 am

Baggins wrote:Rocking Horse (William Bartle)was the 2952nd policeman to join the Leeds City Force. He was sworn in on the 30th Aug 1907. He was born at Morton Bank nr Howarth in 1882 and died in 1956. He was not a huge man as stated but was actually 5'9'' with Blue eyes, Brown hair and a fresh complection. He lived for some time at Penraevon Place at the bottom of Roundhay Road and later in the Elfords. He married a woman called Ethel Gertrude Sims at St Aidens church, Roundhay Road on 20th April 1918 and they lived at 78 Elford Place. He was known for his un PC (for a PC that is) methods of dealing with the baddies. Rocking Horse had the number 568 and when I was a police officer in the 60s and 70s the last Leeds City officer to carry that number was Mick Warne. Mick has been retired for quite some years now but still lives in West Leeds, I spoke to him on the phone not too long ago. There is a funny coincidence with the name William Bartle in that the first ever Chief Constable of Leeds, William Heywood, who by the way only lasted in the job for a year (he was sacked for neglect of duty) was the father of a boy to a local woman with whom he had cohabited. He never married this woman (Sarah Whitaker) and didn't pay much towards the upkeep of the child. He later married and had a daughter of his own who went on to marry into a quite wealthy family, their children having had a good education became surgeon, clergyman, solicitor,accountant. In the mean time Sarah married a man called John Bartle and the child obviously took this name, he was William Bartle!! I hoped that there might be some connection between the first William and the second but unfortunately no such luck. Still researching. Baggins


Hi, I know this is a long shot given these were posted in 2008, but does anyone know anymore on William Bartle?
I’m trying to find my Grandma’s birth father and on his marriage certificate it says that his father was a police sergeant, Robert William bartle (he was also a bigamst so it’s quite possible he switched his father’s first and middle names.
Thanks,
Lyndsey
iansmithofotley
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri 28 Dec, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Local Characters

Postby iansmithofotley » Fri 07 Sep, 2018 7:47 pm

Hi Lyndseymarie,

I have noticed that you have had no responses to your messages. Apart from local knowledge about William Bartle, already shown in the thread, there are some members on Secret Leeds who are interested in doing research into family history.

If you want information about your family, then you will have to provide further information. I realise that you might not wish to do so on a public forum but I think that unless you know someone who has access to websites such as Ancestry or Find My Past, then it will be difficult to get the information that you require.

You will need to provide as much information as possible in respect of each person in your family such as date (exact or approximate) and place of birth, details of marriages and death, with relevant dates and places. Addresses, and approximate dates of residency, are also useful because of censuses. Occupations are also helpful.

You will need to supply the relevant information about your grandmother, grandfather, great grandparents, parents and other known relatives in order to give people a clue as to where to start searching.

I realise that you may not wish to do this on a public forum but I think that on Secret Leeds, it is the only way. You could try on Facebook sites about Leeds such as Memories of Leeds or Leedsface, etc., but again, you will have to provide information.

Since Leeds City Police was formed in 1836. There will have been many people with the name of Bartle. As far as I am aware, the PC 568 William Bartle (Rocking Horse) remained a constable for his entire service.

Ian
Lyndseymarie
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Re: Local Characters

Postby Lyndseymarie » Fri 07 Sep, 2018 9:06 pm

Hi @iansmithofotley

Do you think it’s best to pos it right here? Ive types out all I know... Or do you mean on a different thread?

Thanks, lyndsey

iansmithofotley
Posts: 392
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Re: Local Characters

Postby iansmithofotley » Fri 07 Sep, 2018 9:39 pm

Hi Lyndsey,

It's up to you where you post it, either here, or on a separate thread, but you have already linked it to William Bartle on this current thread, so you may as well post it here.

Ian
Lyndseymarie
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Re: Local Characters

Postby Lyndseymarie » Sat 08 Sep, 2018 9:24 am

Hi Ian,
I’m more than happy to provide as much information as I know because I’ve been trying to find him/links to him on Find My Past for months, but I just can’t get anywhere with it & my Nan is in her 80s now and she’s never even seen a photo of him before and I think she deserves to before the inevitable happens.

This is what I know so far:

Nan: Rita Borile, formerly Bartle, born 10/7/1931 in Malton/Norton, North Yorkshire. Her mother was Violet Gray & her father was George William Bartle. I have a copy of their marriage certificate from a registry office in Malton dated 22/6/29- saying he was 27yr old farm laborer and she was 20 & their residence was 101 Pately Terrace, Mill St, Norton. Then says his dad was Robert William Bartle & a police Sargent and her dad was John William Gray, a laborer.
My nan told me that her dad was a bigamist who had another family (and possibly 2 boys) with a woman from Leeds & that her mum told her that he went to prison. I have a Leeds Mercury article dated Feb 27th 1930 that says a William George Bartle from North Ellam, Norfolk was remanded until tomorrow on the charge of bigamy to Violet. It also says the wife he married in March 26 1919 is was still alive at that point (but gives no name).
I couldn’t find any prison records for him but don’t know if I was looking in the right place. With his father being a police sergeant it seems strange he wasn’t mentioned in the paper...so I’m thinking he could have lied about his name, his age, or his father on the marriage certificate!
I believe Violet had her first child to another man, but then had my nan and 2 or 3 others to George/William. Before running off and leaving the children to have another child with a different man.

I think this is as much as I know, though with promoted questions I may know more.
If anyone who is good a this type of stuff wants to have a go, I’d be so grateful. It just seems like an impossible feat from all angles! Maybe the Rocking Horse Bartle wasn’t his father because it doesn’t say he was originally from Norfolk on here! But there’s still a link to Leeds because my Nan was sure the other family George had was from Leeds.
Thanks, Lyndsey
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tyke bhoy
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Re: Local Characters

Postby tyke bhoy » Sat 08 Sep, 2018 12:02 pm

Welcome Lnseymarie.

I think though I am the bearer of bad news on this line of investigation. Ian certainly doesn't believe Rocking Horse became a Sergeant and with his unorthodox methods from the anecdotal evidence that wouldn't surprise me. A post on this leodis image http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... SPLAY=FULL also suggests he was definitely disciplined at least once which may not have precluded him from becoming a Sergeant. However the same comment also suggests that 3 of his sons died in infancy and the only other died at 15 which may be old enough to have been a father but not a bigamist.
living a stones throw from the Leeds MDC border at Lofthouse

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tyke bhoy
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George William Bartle

Postby tyke bhoy » Sat 08 Sep, 2018 12:05 pm

Oh but don't despair some of our family history experts might be able to help with the Norfolk connection which does appear to be still a valid line of enquiry.
edit:
Because it is very unlikely that George is connected to local character William Bartle (Rocking Horse) I have split this from the local characters thread in general chat into its own thread in Family History. Hopefully some of our Family Historians will assist.
living a stones throw from the Leeds MDC border at Lofthouse

http://tykebhoy.wordpress.com/

iansmithofotley
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Re: George William Bartle

Postby iansmithofotley » Sat 08 Sep, 2018 3:18 pm

Hi tyke bhoy,

The posts by John Young (ex-PC 146) on Leodis give a lot of information about William Bartle. John is an old friend of mine but I haven't seen him for many years. After he left the Police Force, in the 1970's, I seem to remember that he travelled and worked abroad for some years. He returned to Leeds and went into the Licensing trade and managed some pubs around Leeds. He was also involved in the training of potential licensees at the Tetley's Training Centre at Ashfield House in Otley (which is a former Manor House, now converted into expensive apartments, in previous years from 1955 - 1970's it was a Tetley's pub).

I have checked the 1939 Register for England and Wales and, at that time, William Bartle was living at 78 Elford Place, Leeds 8, with his wife Ethel. His occupation is shown as 'Police Constable (Retired)'. He also served in the war from 1915 and got married in Leeds in 1918. He joined the Leeds City Police in 1907, so he can't have served for more than 22 years, at the most, including his army service.

Ian
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jma
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Re: George William Bartle

Postby jma » Sat 08 Sep, 2018 7:23 pm

Re John Young, I can only echo the comments by Ian. The last time I saw John was in Otley when he was doing the Tetley's training job which may be twenty years ago. I see from Leodis that his email in 2011 was ahpyoung@sky.com That could have changed, of course, but you could give it a try. He's the sort of person who would be keen to help you. Another possibility would be to write to him through the police pensions department at Police HQ in Wakefield. Include an unaddressed stamped envelope with your letter open so it can be read. In the "good old days" they would have forwarded it to him, once it was obviously bona fide. The pensions admin has been privatised now so it might not work, but if you want to contact him it's worth a try. Bear in mind that he must be well into his seventies so he may no longer be alive.

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