Motley family; Osmondthorpe Hall; Call Lane Aryan Congregation

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motleywill
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Postby motleywill » Thu 02 Oct, 2008 1:24 pm

I am trying to find out more about my family which came from Leeds and were there from at least 1650 onwards. I have some information about them in the 19th century but I want to find out more about:

James Motley of Osmondthorpe Hall (end of 18th C) - a wool merchant. I believe he was christened at St Peters but his children seem to have been christened at Call Lane Arian Congregation (about whom I know nothing).

His son Thomas married Caroline Osburn and they moved to South Wales early in the 19th C to set up a coal mine, which was not successful.

Thos and Caroline had several sons who went off round the world (James to Borneo; Arthur to Australia; Francis to India and then Canada.

Francis's son Lewis Motley was back in Leeds I believe c 1900

Lewis's son, also Lewis born c. 1900 was my grandfather. (I grew up in Shropshire and have no connection now with Leeds).

I have some pictures and letters from the 19th C but I am really trying to find out more about the 18th C and earlier. Where did the family come from? They seem to have done quite well in the 18th C and James is listed as 'esquire' - I have found a grant of Arms to a Thomas and William Motley late eighteenth century and wonder if it is the same family.

There is also the possibility that the Motleys of Pittsylvania in the US are descended from the Leeds Motleys - though I cannot prove it.

If there is anyone working on this period or this family I would be pleased to hear from them.

Will Motley

Si
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Postby Si » Thu 02 Oct, 2008 2:24 pm

Hi Will,
From the info you already have I assume you've checked the relevant Census?
I have posted a Godfrey OS map from 1847 showing the only chapel on Call Lane at the time. It says 'Arian' below it. The chapel no-longer exists, and neither does the bazaar. The oval Corn Exchange now sits in the space between Cloth Hall Street and Crown Street. The area north of the Crown and Fleece still exists. (See Skulls thread!) St Peter's (Leeds parish church) is at the end of Kirkgate (off the map to the right.) Osmondthorpe is also to the east.
Hope this is of interest.
PS There is a town to the north west of Leeds called Otley (no 'M'!)
Cheers,
Si

PS Click on the map to enlarge it.        
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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Thu 02 Oct, 2008 6:33 pm

motleywill wrote:
I am trying to find out more about my family which came from Leeds and were there from at least 1650 onwards. I have some information about them in the 19th century but I want to find out more about:

James Motley of Osmondthorpe Hall (end of 18th C) - a wool merchant. I believe he was christened at St Peters but his children seem to have been christened at Call Lane Arian Congregation (about whom I know nothing).

His son Thomas married Caroline Osburn and they moved to South Wales early in the 19th C to set up a coal mine, which was not successful.

Thos and Caroline had several sons who went off round the world (James to Borneo; Arthur to Australia; Francis to India and then Canada.

Francis's son Lewis Motley was back in Leeds I believe c 1900

Lewis's son, also Lewis born c. 1900 was my grandfather. (I grew up in Shropshire and have no connection now with Leeds).

I have some pictures and letters from the 19th C but I am really trying to find out more about the 18th C and earlier. Where did the family come from? They seem to have done quite well in the 18th C and James is listed as 'esquire' - I have found a grant of Arms to a Thomas and William Motley late eighteenth century and wonder if it is the same family.

There is also the possibility that the Motleys of Pittsylvania in the US are descended from the Leeds Motleys - though I cannot prove it.

If there is anyone working on this period or this family I would be pleased to hear from them.

Will Motley


Call lane Arian chapel was indeed the chapel that Si has hilighted on the 1847 map.
Its one of the first chapels in Leeds,originally built in 1691 by the Independent Dissenters.

The PR exist at Leeds Central library on microfiche (with burials),and the IGI (Latter day saints)website has baptisms from 1695 to 1709 and then 1728 to 1835.

There is also an engraving of the chapel on page 42 of
"The Illustrated History of Leeds" by Steven Burt and Kevin Grady.

If you had some relatives using this chapel then they would have been a little controversial in the community (though Leeds had a large dissenting population in the 18th century) as their beliefs were quite the opposite of the established church of England and also Rome:-
Arianism, and Arius (4th century CE)
Arianism was a Christian heresy first proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius. It affirmed that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. The fundamental premise of Arius was the uniqueness of God, who is alone self-existent and immutable. The Son, who is not self-existent, cannot be God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

Basically they believed Jesus was a man,not the son of God,that he was not divine.His divinty was not mooted until 325 AD at the council of Nicaea when there was a concerted effort to make all of the Christian world more uniform in its beliefs and worship,im sure more scholarly members of this site could give you more on this.

As for Thomas Motleys siblings i have found a probable marriage for his sister Elizabeth at Leeds Parish Church 04/01/1810 to a Charles Waddell.

I have found some baptisms on the IGI at Selby for children of Elizabeth and Charles
SARAH ANN WEDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 04 FEB 1818 Selby, Yorkshire, England
- married ROBERT STANSFIELD HOLROYD
    26 MAY 1836 Selby,Yorkshire, England
- 1851 census Soyland,Yorkshire,HO107; Piece: 2299; Folio: 551 with son Charles Weddall Holroyd aged 3

THOMAS MOTLEY WEDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender Male Christening: 02 MAY 1814 Selby, Yorkshire, England

CHARLES MASON WEDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 DEC 1815 Selby, Yorkshire, England
- married Mary Dobson 05 OCT 1843 Selby,
- 1851 census Carlton,Selby, HO107; Piece: 2351; Folio: 27 with children
Joseph Dobson Weddell 1
Annie Wedell 4
Charles Wedell 2

There are another two other baptisms for Elizabeth and Charles at the same church :-
ELIZA WEDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 MAY 1812 Selby, Yorkshire, England

JAMES WEDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 JAN 1811 Selby, Yorkshire, England

These last two,earlier,baptisms do not name the mother,and as there is also another Charles Wadell baptisng children at the same church (with a wife Susannah Maria) then you would need to look at Selby PR to gain more details,fathers occupation etc and place of birth,to try and deduce which parents Eliza and James belong to.

As for Elizabeth herself she appears in the 1851 census in Carlton,Selby,HO107; Piece: 2351; Folio: 267,with son Thomas Motley Weddall and her brother,your Thomas aged 69,he is shown as married,retired merchant.

So there you go,a bit more for you to go on.





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motleywill
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Postby motleywill » Thu 02 Oct, 2008 7:26 pm

Many thanks to Si and Cosni - very useful.

I am still trying to find out why the Motleys moved to the CLAC from St Peters (c1800) - and they seem to have returned later. I have done a quite a bit on IGI and the Motley leeds records appear to be either St Peter's or CLAC.

I am also unsure of who Thomas Motley's mother was - i.e who James married. I have had to make quite a few guesses going back after that. But I think it was possibly this woman who encouraged the move!

James Motley (b 1754) m? Sarah Longfellow

James was son of Thomas M (b 1719) and Hannah Walker

& Thomas was the son of Daniel Motley and Hannah Powel - and Daniel was the son of another Thomas M.

I think I probably need to come up to Leeds and spend some time in some records offices - are there good resources for this period that are accessible? Some wills would be good!

many thanks

Will

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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Fri 03 Oct, 2008 12:05 am

motleywill wrote:
Many thanks to Si and Cosni - very useful.

I am still trying to find out why the Motleys moved to the CLAC from St Peters (c1800) - and they seem to have returned later. I have done a quite a bit on IGI and the Motley leeds records appear to be either St Peter's or CLAC.

I am also unsure of who Thomas Motley's mother was - i.e who James married. I have had to make quite a few guesses going back after that. But I think it was possibly this woman who encouraged the move!

James Motley (b 1754) m? Sarah Longfellow

James was son of Thomas M (b 1719) and Hannah Walker

& Thomas was the son of Daniel Motley and Hannah Powel - and Daniel was the son of another Thomas M.

I think I probably need to come up to Leeds and spend some time in some records offices - are there good resources for this period that are accessible? Some wills would be good!

many thanks

Will


Wills are at the Borthwick Institute in York,
http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/bihr/guideleaflets/probate.htm
but there is an index of early wills at the central library i think,with the reference numbers to order from the Borthwick.

Its not uncommon for families and individuals to move from non conformity to Church of England and back in the 17th and 18th centuries for various reasons,Ralph Thoresby the famous Leeds historian and collecter is a case in point.
The 17th century religion was far more importnat to the population than it is today,people were far more superstitious and were always worried about God watching them all the time

You seem to find that the very wealthy stay with the church,whilst the slightly less well off merchants dabbled in non conformity.
The poorer also tended to go with non conformity.

What you will find is that no matter what,everyone had to be married at the Parish Church.Otherwise any offspring would be made illegitimate,and so all denominations would ensure this did not happen.

The best thing i could suggest to you would be to phone Leeds central library local and family history room,ensure they have the Call Lane Arian records in and then come up,check out the baptisms that you have and then look at the burials.
Hopefully the burial of James wife should appear,and therefore you should have a name.
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Postby Si » Fri 03 Oct, 2008 10:03 am

Cnosni quote:
"Arianism, and Arius (4th century CE)
Arianism was a Christian heresy first proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius. It affirmed that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. The fundamental premise of Arius was the uniqueness of God, who is alone self-existent and immutable. The Son, who is not self-existent, cannot be God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

Basically they believed Jesus was a man,not the son of God,that he was not divine.His divinty was not mooted until 325 AD at the council of Nicaea when there was a concerted effort to make all of the Christian world more uniform in its beliefs and worship,im sure more scholarly members of this site could give you more on this."







"That would be an ecumenical matter..."
    
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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Fri 03 Oct, 2008 11:38 am

Si wrote:
Cnosni quote:
"Arianism, and Arius (4th century CE)
Arianism was a Christian heresy first proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius. It affirmed that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. The fundamental premise of Arius was the uniqueness of God, who is alone self-existent and immutable. The Son, who is not self-existent, cannot be God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

Basically they believed Jesus was a man,not the son of God,that he was not divine.His divinty was not mooted until 325 AD at the council of Nicaea when there was a concerted effort to make all of the Christian world more uniform in its beliefs and worship,im sure more scholarly members of this site could give you more on this."







"That would be an ecumenical matter..."
    
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Postby osmond » Thu 15 Jan, 2009 4:46 pm

willmotley
If you look on the leodis website, you will find a photo of Osmondthorpe Hall. It was demolished years ago but the original wall on the photo still exists. Coming into Osmondthorpe Lane from York Road, it is on the left hand side, opposite the Rani shop.

Cardiarms
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Postby Cardiarms » Thu 15 Jan, 2009 5:10 pm

Isn't that Chapel built on the site of the Guiness Clock?
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Postby Hector » Tue 27 Jan, 2009 2:27 pm

To clear up confusion there was an Old Hall, this was the one on the left hand side as you go down Osmonthgorpe Lane from Harehills Lane. This was demolished in the 1930s.
The Osmondthorpe Hall that the Motley family lived in was situated where the YMCA used to stand, there is now a housing development on the site. You can still the original gate post standing on Osmondthorpe Lane and there was also entrance on what is now Stowe Grove.
This building was built in the 1720s and was bought as it provided a country estate outside of Leeds but still within easy reach of town. This house burnt down in 1924, there is a photo and article in the reference library taken from the Leeds Express, I think it was April 1924. The nearest fire engine was situated in Park Row at the time, Gipton fire station did not open until 1936.
ThThere was an attempt to sell the land in the 1880s as part of the proposed race track proposal that would centre on Skelton Farm, Osmondthorpe Hall was to provide a cricket ground. The last owners of the Hall were the Robinson family,several of whommare buried in Beckett Street cemetery.
The small parade of shops on Osmondthorpe Lane, The Cottages, also formed part of the original estate.
The working mens club was opned in 1930 but I do not know when the YMCA was opned.

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