Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

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jma
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JoinedCOLON Fri 05 Aug, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby jma » Sun 28 Aug, 2016 12:26 pm

volvojack wroteColonReference collar number. My Grandfather Leach was a sergeant in the Leeds Police around the 1900s, I have a picture which I will get one of the family to put on here. The number looks like a crown and then 139 so maybe some one later can confirm that..


I hope you will be able to post the picture in due course.

Although they are precious family items, I think these old photo's have a much wider importance and posting on the internet is an excellent way of both publishing them more widely and recording them for the future. Otherwise, somebody has a clearout and the wheat is slung out with the chaff. The Leodis site is brilliant in this connection.

If information technology is the problem, I'm no whizz-kid but I have a scanner and if that's all that's stopping a pic of PC139 Leach, as was, being seen by a wider audience, I'd be pleased to do my bit.
volvojack
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby volvojack » Sun 28 Aug, 2016 3:10 pm

jma wroteColon
volvojack wroteColonReference collar number. My Grandfather Leach was a sergeant in the Leeds Police around the 1900s, I have a picture which I will get one of the family to put on here. The number looks like a crown and then 139 so maybe some one later can confirm that..


I hope you will be able to post the picture in due course.

Although they are precious family items, I think these old photo's have a much wider importance and posting on the internet is an excellent way of both publishing them more widely and recording them for the future. Otherwise, somebody has a clearout and the wheat is slung out with the chaff. The Leodis site is brilliant in this connection.

If information technology is the problem, I'm no whizz-kid but I have a scanner and if that's all that's stopping a pic of PC139 Leach, as was, being seen by a wider audience, I'd be pleased to do my bit.



Thanks for That jma.
I have not managed to get this photo on as my daughter has been away on a Paramedics course but will be back on Tuesday. My family were always under the impression he was a Sergeant. On his uniform there is a Ball and Chevron on thesleeve cuff so maybe someone will know from that.
No one knew in our family knew about this picture It seem it waswas found in a drawer with some other papers when old Millgarth was being demolished and was subsequently published in a book about Leeds Police with the heading "A Leeds Police Officer from the 1900s"
By accident my nephew discovered this picture in a Library book and my Mother who was in her eighties had never seen this picture of her father.
Thank you for your kind offer as to the printer but I am down in Gloucester
jma
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby jma » Sun 28 Aug, 2016 5:29 pm

volvojack

This is an edited version of what was a apology for unintentionally demoting your grandfather.

It occurred to me to check a few of my own books and I started with the official history of Leeds Police and what must surely be the same picture is there on page 63 with the caption Police Constable c. 1900 I believe the round emblem on his forearm is a merit badge issued by the Watch Committee and the chevron indicates length of service. I'll try to check when those emblems were discontinued. The badge on his collar is definitely a shield of the type in my earlier picture.

By the way, did you know that the new Millgarth has recently been demolished to make way for a car park? There's now a brand new nick on Elland Road pretty much on the site of the greyhound track as was. I wonder how long that will last?

Incidentally, that was where I made my first arrest on my own. As I've mentioned before somewhere, on my first week back from training centre I was on half nights. This meant working the first part of the shift with the group on late turn, before your own group paraded at 9-45pm. One night earlier in the week, there had been a report of a drunk laid out in Mario Street (just off Dewsbury Road in those days, now long demolished.) I was taken there to get my first bit of experience of dealing with drunks. At the weekend, still being "shown round" a more experienced PC was detailed for duty at the dog track, with me in tow to get the experience. Not wanting to be encumbered by li'l ole me, he gave me the slip. Almost immediately, the commissionaire from the track grabbed me to say there was somebody unconscious among the parked cars. No matter how inexperienced you are, there's no place to hide in police uniform so I went to investigate. With my brand new first aid certificate in my duty book wallet, I got down to check pulse etc., and was very relieved when the "unconscious" man swore at me. No radios then, of course, so I asked the commissionaire to ring for the van.

The van arrived PDQ driven by 578 Mick Evans with Sergeant 284 Henry I'Anson. Still frightened of my own shadow, never mind police sergeants, I began with an apology. Henry answered along the lines of "No need to apologise, young man. You're doing your job and now I'm doing mine." From then on in, I knew the procedure at the Bridewell having been down there earlier in the week.

Before dropping me off back at the dog track he commented that he would now be doing another part of his job: finding out why somebody who had been detailed to show me the ropes had left me to cope on my own.

In those days, drunks appeared at court in custody the following morning, and the arresting officer attended automatically. The prisoner's cash, if any, was noted on the magistrates' copy of the caution and charge form given to defendant and the magistrates thus had a way to avoid giving "time to pay" and a lot more bureaucracy. The system was that at the conclusion of the usually brief hearing, the "officer in the case" was given the "pay now" fine notice, took the defendant back to the Bridewell to collect their property and then back in the Town Hall to the Maggy Clerk's office (as we called it) to settle their fine. There were the inevitable delays while receipts were prepared and one lesson quickly learned by new PC's was that you could soon be left with a dozen or so fine notices + defendants when more experienced colleagues said "Look after this one for me" and scarpered. Anyway, it turned out that my drunk didn't even know he was in Leeds: he'd set out to celebrate in Selby with a bottle of whisky in his pocket and everything else was a blank until he'd been woken up to go to court.
volvojack
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby volvojack » Sun 28 Aug, 2016 5:53 pm

My Grand dad Leach will be pleased to be made up back to Sgt. My Mother told me that during the Liverpool Dock Strike in the early 1900s he was ordered to take a body of men and go on foot to Halifax, there they then were taken by transport to the 'Pool to join other Forces and deal with Riots etc.

Your mention of Mario Street off Dewsbury road, as a coincidence when my Mother first got married she lived there opposite the O'Toole family, one of which became a famous film star, Peter.
Last edited by 2 on volvojack, edited 0 times in total.

jma
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby jma » Sun 28 Aug, 2016 7:36 pm

Leeds policeman.jpg
Leeds policeman.jpg (223.03 KiB) Viewed 896 times



volvojack

Here's my scan of Page 63 of the History of Leeds Police. I don't know the occasion for this picture being taken, but the officer's forearm is prominently displayed. It seems to be an official picture so it must record something significant.

Assuming that this is the same picture you have, and assuming that the caption in the book is correct, that says nothing about the rank he eventually achieved. I presume being in charge of a contingent of officers on what became known as "mutual aid" must have required supervisory rank. The book from which I copied it correctly shows that I was Constable 153 on 31 March 1974 when Leeds City Police ceased to exist. The first thing I did as a member of the newly-formed West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police was to stand in front of Ronald Gregory, my new chief constable, as one of a group of some 30 constables to receive a mass bollocking, then to be singled out for some teasing about my height before being promoted to sergeant. If my grandchildren eventually post on some internet forum or whatever they have by then, they will recall that I retired as an inspector.

On the subject of mutual aid, I took the Dewsbury Police Support Unit to assist Greater Manchester Police when Pope John Paul II led holy mass at Heaton Park Manchester, on 31 May 1982. Weeks later, at the beginning of July 1982, I was one of the supervisors with a huge contingent of West Yorkshire officers who travelled to Malton to assist North Yorkshire Police searching for Barry Prudom who had murdered three people including two police officers and had attempted to murder another.
volvojack
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby volvojack » Mon 29 Aug, 2016 9:20 am

Excellent jma.
That's the one,
He had 6 Daughters and 7 Sons and he was a Landlord of various Public houses around the City. Sadly both he and my Grandmother died before I was born.
jma
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby jma » Mon 29 Aug, 2016 11:25 am

volvojack

I'm glad I got there in the end.

On the subject of ranks, don't forget that all police, from police constables to chief constables hold the office of constable. That's why they are all police officers, unlike the armed forces

When I registered the birth of my first son, the rather self-important registrar - who had his own Territorial Army commission in a frame on the wall - growled that I was not an officer, but only a constable. I didn't waste my time trying to explain to such an ignorant person that I was both. The Late Sir Robert Mark, who retired as Commissioner of the Metropolis titled his interesting autobiography In the Office of Constable which is an extract from the oath of allegiance to Our Sovereign Lady the Queen, or when he joined allegiance to Our Sovereign Lord the King.

When I was working at Dewsbury in the early 1980's, I had some official reason to visit an AA kiosk (Automobile Association, not Alcoholics Anonymous) on the bus station, just next to the police station. During the conversation with the young lady there, she mentioned that her father was in the police but that I probably wouldn't know him because he was only a constable. It turned out that her father was "Jock" Tainsh and I told her that not only did I know him from his Leeds CID days but that I knew he had recently been awarded the Queen's Police Medal for Distinguished Service. (That decoration is sufficiently important to be announced in the Birthday or New Year's Honours List. It's not something you get for sending in three cornflake packet tops.)

Jock Tainsh's number is listed as 622. I had to look that one up because he was in CID when I joined. I see his initials are A.A. the same as on his daughter's kiosk, but I don't know what they stood for because I never heard him called anything but Jock. No doubt his real name is engraved on his well-deserved QPM.
iansmithofotley
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby iansmithofotley » Mon 29 Aug, 2016 8:02 pm

Hi Mick,

Jock's first name was Alan. He did some wonderful work whilst working 'under cover', particularly in the Regional Crime Squad in the late 1960's and afterwards.

Ian

Leodian
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby Leodian » Wed 07 Sep, 2016 12:12 pm

There is a report on page 11 of the Yorkshire Evening Post (YEP) today (Sept 7 2016) relating to the recent death of Jack Camidge at the age of 92. The YEP reports that he fought in World War Two and also served as a police inspector in Leeds. Though not directly related to this thread I thought it may be of interest to mention it here as he may have been known to some of those who have contributed to this thread.

This is a link to the YEP online version of the report:- http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/tributes-after-death-of-leeds-war-hero-1-8108721
A rainbow is a ribbon that Nature puts on when she washes her hair.
iansmithofotley
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby iansmithofotley » Wed 07 Sep, 2016 8:20 pm

Hi Leodian,

I knew Jack Camidge but never worked with him. I seem to remember him working in the Prosecutions Department at Brotherton House when I worked in the same building from 1968 until 1972. I also think that he may have served in the Traffic Department at Belle Vue Road, but I may be mistaken. As time goes on, there are obviously fewer and fewer officers from the Leeds City Police Force who are still alive. I was unaware of Jack's army service.

Ian

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