SecretLeeds - History, culture and architecture in Leeds

I drove past the 'Rag & Louse' in Yeadon yesterday...Does anyone know why/how that got it's name?

Also there's the Fox and Newt on Burley Street! ?????????????

electricaldave wrote: One notable pub in Leeds for very many years was the Marquis of Granby.This pub has survived being demolished and rebuilt in the 1890's and again during the 1930's Headrow construction project, which saw much of the north side buildings on Upper Headrow demolished, and the whole lot extended down to Eastgate, effectively bypassing Lady Lane, including the Marquis.So it survived two complete rebuilds and relocations, several wars and sadly in our modern age we can't seem to find a space for it in its original role.There are many pubs around by this name, here is the reason,http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... FULL...and of the man himselfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Manners%2C_Marquess_of_Granby i did some checking on the marquis and his family name,as you know is manners,but his family seat is haddon hall,another leeds pub....the plot thickens!!

Chrism wrote: Also there's the Fox and Newt on Burley Street! ????????????? Hi Chrism,Or even the Rutland Hotel?Ian.

The New Penny was renamed in 1971 to coincide with decimalization. Prior to that, it was the Hope & Anchor.[On topic but, off area] As to names like the Kings Head etc, not being that interesting…. The King William IV [Hampstead], my own pub, was originally called the Kings Head, but was renamed in 1835, after the eponymous King stopped here on his way to take the “airs” on Hampstead Heath at Kenwwood House. Even poor old pubs like mine [boo hoo] with dull names, can have a meaning behind them.

Chrism wrote: Also there's the Fox and Newt on Burley Street! ????????????? This name is a modern(1980's?) invention of the 'Frog and Nightgown' ,' Rat and Ratchet' etc.school of naming pubs. Some probably find it highly amusing - I prefer the traditional names personally. As has been pointed out this pub was formerly the 'Rutland Hotel' - and this name is still in stone below the roof.    

wiggy wrote: Trojan wrote: wiggy wrote: the lancastrians would name their hostelries the rose and crown or rose etc,usually showing the red rose,whilst us yorkists used the white rose. All true. However, I'll quibble with you on a major point. The Lancastrians tended to be those from the North of England and the Yorkists from the South. So at Towton there were thousands of Yorkshiremen killed fighting for the Lancastrian cause. Effectively as you say the Wars of the Roses was a civil war, but fought between the Northern magnates against those from the South. yes this is very true,however the good king richard the third was enthroned in york at the time .as the countries capital at the time due to the king moving his court there,he must of thought the area safe,thus! i feel sure there were many yorkists from our area.the people fighting each other at towton were the children of the men that had stood shoulder to shoulder at crecy and agincourt...all wars are sad...but civil wars especially so. Richard III was crowned at Westminster 22/06/1483,22 years after Towton,His popularity in York came about because he was Duke of York and he showered the city and its inhabitants with grace and favour.All this though occured after Towton,it was Richards elder brother Edward,the future Edward IV who was the leader of the Yorkist army at Towton in 1461 ,infact Richard was not even at Towton.Richard was not the villain that Tudor propogandists (including Shakespeare)had painted him to be,but neither was he spotless.He was clearly implicated in the "dissappearance" of his nephews,the sons of his older brother Edward IV,the two remaining obstructions to the throne for Richard.Its not possible that Richard did not know about the removal of the princes in the tower,and if he genuinely did not then he never went to any lengths to find them or bring the perpretators to justice.The boys just vanished.Richard was a product of his time,he was a brave fighter and good commander,his depiction by Shakespeare as a deformed hunchback is in clear contradiction with his known fighting abilities,in fact at Bosworth he was within a hair of fighting Henry Tudor,personally, one on one.It was on Tudors bodyguard that repelled Richard at Bosworth,not Tudor himself,though it has to be said that Richard had only instigated this personal attack on Henry Tudor and his bodyguard when he realised the battle was about to be lost,it was a last ditch attempt to turn the battle his way.Richard was not a "good "king in the true sense of the word,in fact it was the old Yorkist supporters who turned against him in the end,and it is they who supported Henry Tudor when he landed in Milford Haven with a tiny force and no legitimate claim to the throne.Richard had improved the lot of the Northerners with his Council of the North,but overall he had created envy and jealousy amongst the aristocracy with his patronage of the Nevilles,the family of his wife.You can read all the fiction novels you like,but none of them match real life....... ever!

The vast majority of what we now call West Yorkshire was under the ownership of the Duchy of Lancaster at the time of Towton.The Duke of Lancaster was King Henry VI,the opponent of Edward at Towton.(The Queen today is still the Duke of Lancaster) and son of Henry V.It is safe to assume that the Duke of Lancasters (Kings) army were made up of those persons from West Yorkshire and over the pennines,simply because the Duke of lancaster was their lord,and through his Earls,Dukes and Lords (whom he had the power to maintain or remove) were obliged through serfdom to fight for their respective overseers.The Yorkist contingent (who derive their name from the supporters of the Duke of York,not Yorkshire)were made up mainly of those nobles from the midlands (Earl of warwick) and the south of the country,hence the main contingent of the Yorkist army were from these areas.So really it was north against south,and our lot lost.Im sure that it could not have been as clear cut as that,but in the main it would appear to be the case.As for it being civil war,well maybe not sure on that point.There was never a standing army/armies at this time ,and the motives of the war were dynastic rather political in the sense that it was one branch of the royal family against the other rather than any one political ideal against the other,ie Parliamentarians against Royalists,North against South (American),Right wing against left wing (take your pick)The outcome was always going to be the same,the country ruled by a member of one family.Strange are the misconceptions of history.

drapesy wrote: Chrism wrote: Also there's the Fox and Newt on Burley Street! ????????????? This name is a modern(1980's?) invention of the 'Frog and Nightgown' ,' Rat and Ratchet' etc.school of naming pubs. Some probably find it highly amusing - I prefer the traditional names personally. As has been pointed out this pub was formerly the 'Rutland Hotel' - and this name is still in stone below the roof.     This used to be my local when I lived in Leeds. I was always confused by the name change. I remember when the Rutland had a gas leak a nearly destoyed itself in a explosion.

cnosni wrote: The vast majority of what we now call West Yorkshire was under the ownership of the Duchy of Lancaster at the time of Towton.The Duke of Lancaster was King Henry VI,the opponent of Edward at Towton.(The Queen today is still the Duke of Lancaster) and son of Henry V. The Duchy of Lancaster still owns vast tracts of land in what used to be the West Riding in the Trough of Bowland. Everywhere east of the Hodder and north of the Ribble in that area, Slaidburn, Gisburn, Waddington, Whitewell, were all in the West Riding until the boundary changes in 1974. If you look at an old map Clitheroe (Cledero) is like an isthmus sticking into Yorkshire. I used to have a customer based at Whitewell, who did groundworks in the area, he assured me that he never had a problem getting paid from his major client the "Duke of Lancaster" - the Queen. He spoke with a thick Lancashire accent but assured me that he was born in Whitewell and thus a Yorkshireman born and bred