The Garden Gate Pub

Ale & Local History combined. Secret Leeds Heaven!
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tilly
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JoinedCOLON Mon 11 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm

Postby tilly » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 8:39 pm

Tasa wrote:
tilly wrote:
Hi anon the mouse re women and pubs when i was a kid they could go into a pub but only in the room called the snug not in the bar.I remember in Hunslet were i lived some used to take a jug to the outsales and get it filled with beer.I still remember seeing them walking up the street with a jug coverd with a tea towel it was has though they thought no one would know what they had got.Dont get the idea lots of women did this it was only a few, how things have changed over the years.


Tilly, my mother was brought up in Bradford in the early 1920s and remembered her mother going to the local pub with a jug to get beer. As my mother grew older, she was sent to get the beer (at the age of about 9!). She never drank draught beer if my memory is correct (but occasionally Mackeson's Stout), so these errands obviously didn't corrupt her in spite of her tender age!

Hi Tasa How things have changed not always for the better I have very fond memory's of my younger years but then I did not have to put the food on the table.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
johnnyg
PostsCOLON 121
JoinedCOLON Tue 12 Feb, 2008 4:53 pm

Postby johnnyg » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 9:07 pm

I worked behind the bar at the Skinners Arms on Scott Hall Road during the early 70s and there was a chap lived in one of the houses next door that used to call in on weekend nights with his two-pint jug for him and his wife to share. If he wasn't interested in what they were watching on TV at home he would stay for a quick half on the sly. On the odd night he might come in for as many as 3 jugs of beer.

The beer in the tap room was 1p cheaper than in the best side and women were allowed in, although many women would never go into a tap room. Around the best side there was also a snug which was where older couples would go.

I also worked at the Queens Arms on Harrogate Road in the later 70s and their tap room clientele would have looked askance at any woman entering the tap room. I don't think they were actually barred but I don't think they were welcomed either.

Both pubs had a sash window to the outside (into the Scott Hall Road entrance lobby in the case of The Skinners) for out sales but I don't recall them ever being used for that purpose - outsales from pubs must have been over by then.
Tasa
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JoinedCOLON Mon 08 Oct, 2007 11:11 am

Postby Tasa » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 9:42 pm

There was an off-sales window at the Royal Park pub on the corner of Queen's Road and Royal Park Road in Burley/Hyde Park in the 1970s - I should pay a visit and see if the window's still there!

Going very off-topic, we moved to the area in 1969 and children were allowed in the garden at the back of the pub (now built over with flats) but not inside. One Sunday lunchtime the gate to the garden was shut, so the only way was through the pub. I remember my dad telling me to "run through but don't look at anyone!" and all I can remember was running through a fog of cigarette smoke and seeing lots of sawdust on the floor - this must have been around 1969/70. It's certainly changed a bit since then!
Jogon
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JoinedCOLON Wed 21 Dec, 2011 1:28 pm

Postby Jogon » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 9:52 pm

Your Dad's advice still sound for the RP


I might be wrong, but think as late as 1950's they built new housing estate pubs with off-sale doors / windows.
I can't find any archive shots of The Highwood off Lidgett Ln but sure it used to on it's large B'wood Drive frontage
http://goo.gl/maps/F3j0T

anon The mouse
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JoinedCOLON Fri 12 Apr, 2013 7:39 am

Postby anon The mouse » Sun 14 Apr, 2013 10:57 pm

Hi Tilly,
please do rabbit on... Its of interest to me. i liked your fishnchip story- its true, your friend's big brother probably dug deep to get those fishnchips for you but was probably happy to. A good friend is like this, he must have liked you to do that. If he's earned it he could spend it. and for you that was magic! I guess.

Tasa, women did often drink Mackeson Stout. I was not a big drinker or pub goer but I did drink Mackason and also babychamp - I remember them particularly as lady's drinks. And In pregnancy, I seem to remember stout being recommended whereas, dont quote me but I think all alchohol is fround on theses days for pregnant women, It sounds lfrom what you say as if women and children running down t' pub to get t'beer went on until at least the end of the 1930s.

So jonnyg, the chap in your story drank with his wife the 2 pintsx3 + whatever he could also down while in the pub. It sounds to me like what you and others are saying as though at sometime, there were rules about where women could go in the pub but also that sometimes women made their own minds up as to where they would go. And this was different in different pubs and at different times and may be infulenced by social mores at the time also.

so out sales was at one time through a sash window, but probably before the 1970s, is that right? Was the sash window in the Tap room? Was the Tap in Tap room related to beer from a tap, as in a water type tap... rather than a pump? and was it so that beer could be sent home via the sash window?
Anon The Mouse
[ub ]Anon THE mouse [ub]
raveydavey
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Postby raveydavey » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 9:13 am

Sorry, confused 'sung' and 'tap' in my earlier post. What I should have said is that the tap room was referred to as the 'smoke' room in some pubs.

As for off sales, the one at the Fellmonger in Seacroft was operating well into the 80's - a door at the side of the pub that led directly to a serving hatch at the end of the tap room bar.

Google maps show the pub boarded up (I think it re-opened?), but the off sales door is clearly present: http://goo.gl/maps/Gy7Yl    
Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act – George Orwell
Bruno
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JoinedCOLON Fri 29 Jul, 2011 9:54 am

Postby Bruno » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 6:27 pm

Ravey
Sorry to contradict you, but a Smoke Room was the best room in the pub - the name was gradually replaced by Saloon Bar or the American influenced name Lounge after the first world war.

The tap room was the "roughest" room in the pub, where dirty work clothing was generally acceptable wear, the room in which the working classes could enjoy a pint after work without having to change first.

In the days of the traditional "three-room" pubs, the Public Bar was the middle option between the cigar smoking opulence of the Smoke Room and the tiled floor and plain furnishings of the Tap Room.

A snug was (and still is if there are any left) a room without direct access to the bar, a side room which offered more privacy to its occupants to conduct business away from the ears of the bar staff and other customers.
The older I get, the better I was.
anon The mouse
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JoinedCOLON Fri 12 Apr, 2013 7:39 am

Postby anon The mouse » Mon 15 Apr, 2013 7:29 pm

Hi just quickly to add my 2p worth as I want to get out in the 'real garden' while the sun's shining. So hope not to make mistakes in the rush, but tasa said some something about women were not barred but would be looked at askance in a certain pub with a certain clientele. In teply to that, When was the

sex discrimination act... some time in the 1970s...

So uptil this Act, women would presumably 'not ' been allowed in the public bar or tap room and perhaps then it is not so unusual to think that :

a) in some pubs women might not be made to feel so welcome in area which had previously been male only and also that

b) Many women now free to enter these zones might have felt inhibited from do so, either because they were sensitive to the 'vibes' which told them they were not welcome or because perhaps this new freedom was just too over powering for them.

Also the point I made about Stout / Mackeson and it being the recommended drink for pregnant women AT THAT TIME was due to the iron content. I have it on good authority that Guiness, Mackeson and Jubilee were known as 'the milk stouts' or 'sweet stouts' because they are sweet, and a mistaken belief that the kind of sugar in them was lactose, but this may not have been true, not sure.

Also that some pubs may have had no cellar -in which case, barrels stood behind the bar, and the tap of 'Tap room' may have become named so because of the tap on the barrrel. I also just learned a new bit of pub architecure - the 'Pump Engine' being the proper name for the 'hand pump'.

off to the Garden now... see you at the gate!
Anon the mouse.

[ub ]Anon THE mouse [ub]

Jogon
PostsCOLON 3036
JoinedCOLON Wed 21 Dec, 2011 1:28 pm

Postby Jogon » Wed 17 Apr, 2013 5:46 pm

Si wrote:
Example of Mucha's work.


I do hear tell his mate's referred to him as 'Me old Mucha'.
Hats Off
PostsCOLON 273
JoinedCOLON Tue 20 Feb, 2007 3:44 pm

Postby Hats Off » Wed 17 Apr, 2013 7:32 pm

anon The mouse wrote:
Hi just quickly to add my 2p worth as I want to get out in the 'real garden' while the sun's shining. So hope not to make mistakes in the rush, but tasa said some something about women were not barred but would be looked at askance in a certain pub with a certain clientele. In teply to that, When was the

sex discrimination act... some time in the 1970s...

So uptil this Act, women would presumably 'not ' been allowed in the public bar or tap room and perhaps then it is not so unusual to think that :

a) in some pubs women might not be made to feel so welcome in area which had previously been male only and also that

b) Many women now free to enter these zones might have felt inhibited from do so, either because they were sensitive to the 'vibes' which told them they were not welcome or because perhaps this new freedom was just too over powering for them.

Also the point I made about Stout / Mackeson and it being the recommended drink for pregnant women AT THAT TIME was due to the iron content. I have it on good authority that Guiness, Mackeson and Jubilee were known as 'the milk stouts' or 'sweet stouts' because they are sweet, and a mistaken belief that the kind of sugar in them was lactose, but this may not have been true, not sure.

Also that some pubs may have had no cellar -in which case, barrels stood behind the bar, and the tap of 'Tap room' may have become named so because of the tap on the barrrel. I also just learned a new bit of pub architecure - the 'Pump Engine' being the proper name for the 'hand pump'.

off to the Garden now... see you at the gate!
Anon the mouse.



I used to go in the Middleton Social club now and again back in the mid 1980's and even then women were not allowed in the games room, any that tried to enter were shouted down in no uncertain terms and they never attempted to go in again.

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