The world famous Leeds Brick Collectors Club

How well do you know Leeds?
The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Thu 25 Sep, 2014 3:38 pm

chemimike wrote:
Not Otley I'm afraid, but possibly the 1916 Leeds list might be of interest. The 1893 list is supposed to include Leeds and neighbouring districts, but doesn't seem to list one in Otley,Here is 1916 version


Mike - so many thanks will poor over this when I get time!
The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Thu 25 Sep, 2014 3:40 pm

chemimike wrote:
However, if we look a bit later, on the c1934 map there appear to be brick kilns in the Pool Bank Quarry


Brilliant - looks like the Whittaker modus operandi was bring the clay in by train and make the bricks where they were to be used.

Your a star......Again.....
The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Thu 25 Sep, 2014 3:44 pm

chemimike wrote:
And here is 1893 version


Hat trick mate.......

I'll have a great time tracing all these works!!

A few old clay pits on the maps now identified by the owners!!!
The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Thu 25 Sep, 2014 3:45 pm

sparky415 wrote:
They used to be a brick factory on the hawksworth Estate, on the ground where the YMCA now stands. there is also remnents of a brick built kiln on the opposite side of the railway. This is the abbey grange side of the railway, in the bottom. near the tracks. I don't think anyone else would know this, but you do now...


Another fine contribution TA!!!

The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Thu 25 Sep, 2014 3:59 pm

simong wrote:
The ever reliable Lost Railways of West Yorkshire site says that there was a narrow gauge line from Pool Quarry, which was in the woods on the Otley side of Harrogate Road, to Pool Station, which was where the newish housing estate is on the village side of the railway bridge. I would guess that the brick works were in the same area. There might still be some evidence down Old Pool Bank.


Yes you got it Simon, but the kiln (long building with straight sides and rounded ends) was in the top quarry. Easy to pick up on the 1:2500 OS old maps.

Wonder if that was to keep the smoke off Pool? Or if it was the only suitable land to build on without buying another site?
grumpytramp
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon 24 Sep, 2007 6:28 pm

Postby grumpytramp » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:35 am

The Parksider wrote:
chemimike wrote:
However, if we look a bit later, on the c1934 map there appear to be brick kilns in the Pool Bank Quarry


Brilliant - looks like the Whittaker modus operandi was bring the clay in by train and make the bricks where they were to be used.


Parkie, remember that conventional building bricks do not need to made using fireclay, in the Leeds area they were normally made using mudstones and shales. Pool Bank Quarry did exploit gritstone (part of the Kinderscout Grit Group) presumably for dimension stone and flags, but also to crush for sand and gravel. It is interesting to note that Whitakers were also the contractors who built High Royds Hospital using stone from Pool Bank Quarry.

The scale of this operation must have been pretty impressive. There is a reference in a journal called "A monthly review of technical and scientific education at home and abroad; JH Lampery ; Vol 1" dated 1877 which describes

Quote:
At Pool Bank Quarry, near Otley, the property of Messrs. Whitaker and Sons, three blocks of stone were recently drawn out of the works on to the bank which weighed over 500 tons, were 64 feet long, 16 feet wide, 7 feet thick. It is easy to see, then, that in England at the present day it is possible to find materials for an obelisk as large or even larger than that one recently received from Alexandria. At the Otley quarry, it is no unusual thing to find stones of this enormous size, and perfectly sound throughout their entire length, raised and ready for the trade."


Originally tiles had been manufactured at the quarry using the shale overburden from the quarry operations, however the bricks were manufactured using shale that stood above the gritstone (probably with a very thin coal and associated seat earth)

The same applies at their works at Hawksworth Quarry where the Rough Rock was worked for stone and crushed grit; bricks being manufactured from the shale below the Rough Rock.

On that side of the city bricks were also manufactured at the Yeadon Brick and Tile works [at New Scarborough by the railway - see http://maps.nls.uk/view/100946492 ]
The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 7:57 pm

grumpytramp wrote:


Parkie, remember that conventional building bricks do not need to made using fireclay, in the Leeds area they were normally made using mudstones and shales. Pool Bank Quarry did exploit gritstone (part of the Kinderscout Grit Group) presumably for dimension stone and flags, but also to crush for sand and gravel.

Originally tiles had been manufactured at the quarry using the shale overburden from the quarry operations, however the bricks were manufactured using shale that stood above the gritstone (probably with a very thin coal and associated seat earth)

The same applies at their works at Hawksworth Quarry where the Rough Rock was worked for stone and crushed grit; bricks being manufactured from the shale below the Rough Rock.


Good evening GT..... Expert corrections more than welcome.

I'm working on the piles of dark pinky/red fireclay at West Yorkshire Colliery and assuming bricks that used fireclay in that colour then stayed that colour?? The B.W.S. embossed early Whitaker bricks are attributed to the Horsforth and Pool sites and the bricks from Nethersprings cottage Horsforth and the brick found in the gamekeepers cottage rubble are the same colour as the traditional fireclay brick???

The later Horsforth bricks can be found in abundance especially around the St, Annes area and they are of the traditional colour the same as any Leeds "red" brick, and are embossed "HORSFORTH".

So confused of Cookridge is further confused if fireclay was not used at places like Burmantofts, Middleton and Elland Road. I thought the material was associated with the coal? But then again I may be assuming Fireclay is pinky-red and that I am confusing it with mudstone?? I'm adamant shales are grey in colour, but eagerly await being put right so we have this right!!

Pool Quarry shows no signs of the old days the faces of the quarry sloped, rock etc gone for hardcore and the bowl of the quarry overgrown with vegetation. Onto Horsforth brickworks and no signs of the buildings, just a rough wood with tracks running through. A few unembossed bricks in the hardcore of the tracks, and only one embossed - oddly with "M & G"............
rikj
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue 20 Feb, 2007 4:59 pm

Postby rikj » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 11:16 pm

The BGS have separate mineral planning factsheets for fireclay and brick clay that give good descriptions of the differences. Can be downloaded as PDFs for light reading.

Generally fireclays have a lighter colour than bricks, more buff than red, due to the lower iron content. I've not seen the West Yorkshire Colliery spoil heap but most reddish spoil heaps are comprised of shale.

Fireclay is almost invariably the seatearth to coal, i.e. it is the ground the plants that formed the coal grew in. If it wasn't to be extracted for sale as fireclay, I can't see that much would need to be brought to the surface along with the coal.

As an aside, I think a "Remaining spoil heaps of Leeds" thread could be brewing.

grumpytramp
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon 24 Sep, 2007 6:28 pm

Postby grumpytramp » Sun 28 Sep, 2014 1:20 am

The Parksider wrote:
So confused of Cookridge is further confused if fireclay was not used at places like Burmantofts, Middleton and Elland Road. I thought the material was associated with the coal? But then again I may be assuming Fireclay is pinky-red and that I am confusing it with mudstone?? I'm adamant shales are grey in colour, but eagerly await being put right so we have this right!! - See more at: http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messages.aspx?ThreadID=5099&StartAtMessage=25&#109003.


Parkie, it was simple economics.

Seatearth fireclay in the West Yorkshire Coalfield were generally quite thin but had "refactory qualities" i.e. they were able to resist high temperatures due to their specific chemical composition. So in East Leeds were fireclays were won as by product of coal mining or sometimes were coal was a bi-product of fireclay mining the fireclay was used to produce high value products such as firebricks for hearths/furnaces/kilns, flue pipes, chimney pots, drainage pipes etc rather than low value common building bricks.

As the common building brick could be made using locally won mudstsone and shales which were/are in huge abundance through out the city bricks were manufactured where ever a suitable deposit of mudstone was found in close proximity to development!

I would hazard that in the huge excavations in Burmatofts particularly both common mudstone for building bricks and fireclay for refractory purposes must have been won (along with a bit of coal for the kilns!)    
The Parksider
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:55 am

Postby The Parksider » Sun 28 Sep, 2014 11:12 pm

rikj wrote:
The BGS have separate mineral planning factsheets for fireclay and brick clay that give good descriptions of the differences. Can be downloaded as PDFs for light reading.

Generally fireclays have a lighter colour than bricks, more buff than red, due to the lower iron content. I've not seen the West Yorkshire Colliery spoil heap but most reddish spoil heaps are comprised of shale.

Fireclay is almost invariably the seatearth to coal, i.e. it is the ground the plants that formed the coal grew in. If it wasn't to be extracted for sale as fireclay, I can't see that much would need to be brought to the surface along with the coal.

As an aside, I think a "Remaining spoil heaps of Leeds" thread could be brewing.


Before jumping to the eagerly awaited GT reply I really appreciate this. I have a nice piece of pinky red WYC "shale"?? I thought was fireclay, and so if fireclays are buff it's a simple mistake and a much appreciated correction. When Chameleoon was a kid he said he could dig down to the coal in his seacroft garden. I never could but below the topsoil before the sandstone there was always a layer of yellowy clay (some of it grey). Our chemistry teacher told us had been smeared over the underlying strata by the glaciers of many moons ago.

Return to





Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 4 and 0 guests