Where and What No.2

munki · Post by **munki** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 10:26 am

Dear Sthenno,Thanks for your considered response to the thread. There is no harm in reviving old threads! It is good that people are searching back through the huge amount of information already on Secret Leeds rather than asking the same old questions over & over...In a city whose skyline is dominated by cranes, & whose corporate & marketing material is dominated by CGI images of imagined future towers of steel & glass, the debate around new development is inevitably (&, indeed, should be), a heated one.Leeds has an incredible heritage in the stones & the fabric of the city, some of the finest examples of Victorian architecture & engineering in Europe, if not the world. We should all be proud of this. But it is a shame when, in the heat of debate, we lose sight of the hospitality & welcome to strangers of which the city should also be proud.As an ex-student, a Mancunian by birth who came to this city to study sixteen long years ago (& yes, I was put up in student accomodation which has since been demolished), I would like to say a resounding...Welcome to Secret Leeds!WELCOME TO LEEDS!Kind regards,Munki,The Secret Leeds Team.

sulkycat · Post by **sulkycat** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 10:34 am

Another incredibly ugly building, in my somewhat-less-than-'umble opinion, & many more of them on the way. Not many manage to rival the blue monstrosity next to the Etap dump/ hotel tho...As one of my degrees was with the Open Uni, therefore self funded, & the other 2 were done whilst working I can hold my head up high (well, as high as someone a smidgen under 5ft can) & say I am edjumacated but not at anyone else's expense. Oh, & have a damned good job that is actually relevant to my degrees!Wanders off to polish halo....

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 10:50 am

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 10:51 am

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 1:53 pm

Hi Sthenno..welcome! I personally don't mind the student's at all, since they've been putting money in my pocket going around fixing all the stuff they smashed during last term in the Leeds met halls of residence Man can't they party??? They were listed buildings though, Cliffs tannery & Kirkstall brewerywhich is a good way of bringing derelict buildings back into use, saving them from ruin at the same time. It's just a pity we can't utilise more of Leeds old buildings for student accomodation instead of putting up these new ugly developements, The council should offer the developers some cash incentive to do this. You only have to look at Hunslet mills by the river. A fantastic building empty for 40yrs it's now been shored up as it's too unstable. By the way it's good to see your going to get out & about with the URBX if you need any pointers or tips then just land me an e-mail.

munki · Post by **munki** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 7:45 pm

Students represent almost exactly 10% of the population of Leeds, which is an incredible per capita figure. They probably spend significantly more than 10% of the annual spend in the city. If they didn't do the (grrr - exercising my own swear filter here) Otley Run, then I would love them.They are a 'transient population', which has its drawbacks, but which also has many advantages, in that it constantly brings new ideas, new tastes, new fashions, new music, new arts into the city, & creates venues / shops / businesses which thrive on trying to meet these demands. The problem with Developers is not caused by the TASTE of students. I very much doubt that there are many of them who arrive in the city saying 'I would rather live in an ugly modern building than in a beautiful Victorian sandstone villa'.A lot of these developments are overnight hotels or apartments that you can rent by the night, & the lifeblood that feeds them comes as much from bankers traveling to & from Edinburgh (HBOS / RBS Group Headquarters) to the meetings in call centres down here, as it does from the student population.The problem as I see it is an old old one. Developers are capitalists. Capitalists do not want to build things which last. If you make a car, or a mobile phone, which will last forever, then you sell one to everyone who needs one, & then there is no one left to sell them to. It is not beyond the reaches of human technology to build a phone, or a car, or a building that will last forever. It's called 'Consumer Durability' (in corporate-speak - more like 'lack of durability' to those of us who have to buy a new mobile phone every ten months). When you buy a 250g jar of Marmite, you know you are not going to be able to get the last 5g out of it, even though you have paid for 'em! For those of you who lived in the 70s, a question - how many times did your parents have to change the big plastic or bakelite pulse-dial 'land-line' phone in the house? Never.Look at vintage cars. The people who own & love these things will be able to keep them running forever. When I was 13, I knew how to change the clutch on an Austin Maxi. It was a day's work, but I knew how to do it. Have you opened the bonnet of a new car recently? The manufacturers don't want you to be able to fix it... because if you can fix it, you will never have to buy a new car!When Cuthbert Brodrick built Secret Leeds HQ (Known as 'The Town Hall' to those who are not in the know), he built it to last forever. A whole part of the aesthetic design of it was a statement, which said 'This will be here much, much, much longer than the man who designed it, the men who built it (whatever happened to Samuel Atack?)'. Lumiere Towers, Bridgewater Place, are aesthetically beautiful (to some tastes), but are they designed to last forever? And, more importantly, what are you doing to the minds & souls of people if you are asking them to live in DISPOSABLE HOMES?

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 10:17 pm

Alec Guiness as the man in the white suit??Basically a man who invents a material that lasts for ever. All cloth manufacturers want to get hold of it (so they can "bury it"). A wonderful ealing comedy and a perfect fictional example of what munki is saying

moggy · Post by **moggy** » Fri 26 Oct, 2007 10:37 pm

Munki the guiness guzzling is forgivable as is the ex student bit but A MANC!!!!There was a good prog on bbc 2 last night called the truth about property. The reporter did a piece to camera about the riverside developments in leeds about their over-subscription and how speculators have lost serious money (FIFTY EIGHT GRAND on one apartment alone bought 2003 sold recently) the overall thought being that far from being a leeds showcase some of these developments were likely to become the slums of the future. It seems to be somewhat cyclical in nature, think quarry hill and/or Hunslet grange futuristic and so called long lasting construction only to be demolished in a relatively short space of time . It makes one wonder how much palm greasing went on to allow some of these monoliths to exist in the first place , if this all seems a bit cynical think about the firm of architects who designed the westgate pool and the much publisised backsliding irregularities that went on at the time, then multiply it on a nationwide basis. It would seem that the builders of a bygone age built and designed so their names would live on,a boosting of ego perhaps. Those that exist today would seem only to want their wallets massaging.Would love to see the "dalek" in twenty or thirty years time.

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 27 Oct, 2007 3:00 pm

Quite frankly i am more than glad to see students in Leeds,they add to the citys overall atmosphere, and i for one welcome them.I would like them to return home and tell friends/family that Leeds is a great place to be ,though we need to be better,certainly on the cultural side of things.When i go abroad and people ask me where i am from many of them look a little perplexed when i say Leeds because they have not heard of Leeds,in stark contrast to either Manchester or Liverpool.So students will raise the profile,put money in the pockets of local businesses and rightly or wrongly prompt developers to build the type of accomadation that is being built.I would like to see the redevelopment of old buildings but these blocks in Little Woodhouse were not built on plots that were being properley utilised and therefore even though they are not the most pleasant to look at it is better than leaving it as a virtual wasteland.Whhops,going off topic!

munki · Post by **munki** » Sat 27 Oct, 2007 3:05 pm

Well, the 'topic' was a What&Where? which got answered ages ago. This discussion is an interesting one. Keep it up!