Leeds rugby clubs

[Chiron]

The Parksider wrote: Chiron wrote: Chirons had changing rooms at the back of Roundhay School. They were part of the old stables.(picture in my book) We had a small tearoom in the same block where the players ate after matches. At that time what was your clubs relationship to Roundhegians. You were just about on their doorstep? Were they all pretty much ex-roundhay school, and you lot not?? and did you get school facilities due to them having their own clubhouse (an assumption) up street lane?? We didn't really have a relationship with Roundhegians. Chirons were given the changing rooms, rent free, in 1925 when the club was called Leeds Education Officers Sports Club (E.O.S.C.). The club changed its name to Chirons in 1930. We used the school on odd occasions for changing, when we had two teams at home, and the school fields for pre-season training but played all our games on Soldiers Field. We had fixtures with Roundhay, mainly the Trojans when I played but never played against Roundhegians.

[Johnny39]

geoffb wrote: majorhoundii wrote: The Parksider wrote: majorhoundii wrote: I played for Morley most of the third and fourth teams' fixtures were in North Leeds, Moortown, Alwoodley, Old Leos (on Moortown's ground IIRC) Roundhay, Rounhegians (on Soldiers Fields) Yarnbury, Lawnswood YMCA, Headingley, Kirkstall are some names that come to mind. Leeds NALGO were another team but they were based behind a pub near Rothwell. Morley are down to two teams now I think? Participation in local rugby and soccer has gone downhill over the last 20 years.Some names there! I don't recognise "Alwoodley" are you thinking of Leo's there? Kirkstall?? Are you meaning Burley??Syd Hynes was signed for Leeds from NALGO I believe?? No we definitely played against Alwoodley, Moortown and Old Leos, I may be wrong, but when we played Moortown seconds, it turned out to be Leeds Grammar 1st XV, who'd played that morning.Morley ran 1st, A, Extra A, & B XV's in those days plus a Colts (u eighteen) side.My first season I played mainly in the B team - what was left when the other sides had been filled - we hardly ever played 15 a side - sometimes we'd add up how many players there were between the two opposing sides and divide it by two. We played 9, 10, 11 a side. In March of that season, my great talent was finally recognised and I was promoted to the Extra A side until the end of the season. I was training twice a week and playing on Saturdays - I've never been so fit - but training and playing didn't leave much time for "courtin'" So the following season I stopped training and carried on playing - back to the B team      Where did Alwoodley play. Moortowns ground was and still is at Far Moss, Leos was and still is on Crag Lane with old Mods on Otley Old Road.(edit) and dont forget West Park Bramhope a top cub in the 70s/80s.I lived in Alwoodley from the mid-50's to mid-60's and never knew of an Alwoodley R.F.U. team. I can remember them building the Leo's on Crag Lane and we used to go in after watching Alwoodley C.C. as the rugby club was licensed and the C.C. wasn't in those days.     

[Loiner in Cyprus]

I played rugby at Headingley in the 70's and early 80's and I dont remember an Alwoodley team. I remember all the other clubs that have been mentioned.

[Chiron]

The Parksider wrote: majorhoundii wrote: We definitely played against Alwoodley Thanks for the memories, great fun. I like the B team modus operandii of splitting the available players of both clubs evenly!!So Alwoodley did exist? How about you Chiron - did you play Alwoodley? Have we any ideas where the club were based/played? I don't recall a club called Alwoodley. I have Yorkshire RFU handbooks for virtually every season from 1930 until the mid 70s and have never seen an Alwoodley club mentioned. West Park, Moortown, Leodiensians and Modernians are all clubs that I am aware of or played against. There was, I believe, a club called Blackmoor that played in the 60s/70s but they played 2nd and 3rd teams and I am not sure where in North Leeds they played.

[iansmithofotley]

Hi everyone,This thread is also very interesting for me as I have a keen interest in rugby – nowadays mainly Rugby Union. The problem that I have with some of the previous posts is trying to relate the various dates and decades when these clubs started, thrived or declined. I was born in 1946 and brought up in Woodhouse. At that time, many of the junior schools played Rugby League. I played for my local ‘county primary’ school, which was Quarry Mount, and I was the captain in 1956/57. I was lucky enough to pass my scholarship and went to Leeds Modern School, at Lawnswood, in 1957. At this time, I knew nothing about Rugby Union and it was a ‘rugby union’ school, so I had to learn the game. In those days, where I lived, the option for grammar schools was Leeds Modern (who played football and rugby union) and the Central High School, in the city centre, (which, I believe, in those days, only played football and not rugby). Some of the more wealthy families sent their boys to the fee-paying Leeds Grammar School, near to Hyde Park, which was also a ‘rugby union’ school. My school mates who were unsuccessful in their scholarship exams (11+) mainly went to Blenheim, which was a ‘rugby league’ school, but some went to Woodhouse School or Meanwood School and I have no idea what sports were played there.From memory, a lot of the secondary schools in south Leeds, and Hunslet, all played Rugby League. I seem to remember that Cockburn was a football school, Temple Moor was a Rugby Union school, Roundhay was a Rugby Union School and West Park was a Rugby Union School. There were other secondary modern schools such as Kirkstall, Bramley, etc., but I seem to remember that they all played Rugby League. I don’t have any real knowledge of what schools played what in the other areas of Leeds, particularly in south and east Leeds.So far as relates to my own school, Leeds Modern (now Lawnswood), it was a grammar school until 1971, when it became a comprehensive/secondary modern school. When I was there, in the first three years, we played rugby in the even years and football in the odd years. All this meant was that at the beginning of the school year, in September, we played rugby until Christmas, and then changed to football until spring and the cricket season. The following school year, it was the opposite way round. In the last two years, aged fifteen and sixteen, we had to choose between football or rugby for our last two years. The same thing applied to the sixth form. However, there were always some kids who were just very good at both rugby and football and represented the school at both games, when they could.In those days (1960’s), the school had an old boys association called the Old Modernians. Although rugby was played at the school, the Old Modernians only played football and cricket. The Old Modernians had no facilities of their own and all of the games were played on the school pitches. Because the Old Modernians did not play rugby, most of the lads that went on to play Rugby Union, after they had left school, went to Moortown RUFC. I do not know why, but this went on for years. Some of us played rugby for the school on Saturday mornings and also played for Moortown Colts in the afternoons. It was only in the late sixties/early seventies that the Old Modernians got their ground on Cookridge Lane and they started to play Rugby Union. West Park school played rugby but the West Park Old Boys RUFC teams also played their games on the school pitches until they got their ground at Bramhope, also in the sixties. Whilst they were still playing on the school pitches, they had an informal headquarters at the Welcome Inn at Tinshill, which they frequented for many years. From memory, at that time, Terry Robbins, an ex Welsh Rugby League player, who had previously been the licensee at the Fforde Greene, the Compton Arms, and also the Kings Arms (on Meanwood Road), was the licensee and supported the club. West Park Old Boys RUFC became West Park Bramhope RUFC and is now West Park Leeds RUFC (after the amalgamation of Headingley RUFC, Roundhay RUFC and now, also, the West Park club).As far as I am aware, many of the Leeds Rugby Union clubs were not ‘school’ ‘old boys’ clubs but their origins may have been connected with other organisations, trades or companies. Clubs like Headingley (originally Leeds St Johns), Roundhay, Bramley (originally Bramley Old Boys RUFC, then Bramley RUFC and now Bramley Phoenix RUFC – after an amalgamation with Bradford Phoenix RUFC), Burley, Leeds Corinthians, etc., were all such clubs with no school connections. Old Leodiensians, Old Roundhegians, West Leeds etc., were school ‘old boys’ teams. Like others have said, I remember playing Leeds Chirons (all schoolteachers) at Soldier’s Field. Funnily enough, when I was at Leeds Modern School, one of my form teachers was called Andrew Barclay and, as a Moortown Colt, I once played against him whilst playing for Moortown 2nds, as the Colts had no game. I also remember playing against Yorkshire Copper Works RUFC at Stourton, but that was part of a large sports club connected with the firm and many sports were played there.Moortown RUFC had regular fixtures with Carnegie College RUFC at Far Headingley and Leeds University RUFC at Weetwood. In those days, all Rugby Union was amateur and there were no leagues. Clubs got their fixtures over many years and clubs were informally referred to as ‘senior clubs’ and ‘junior clubs’. In the 1960’s, the only ‘senior’ club in Leeds was Headingley RUFC. The most senior of the ‘junior’ clubs in Leeds was Roundhay. Moortown, Leos, Morley, Bramley, West Leeds, Roundhegians, West Park, etc., all had good seasons and bad seasons depending on who was playing at the time. Later, Roundhay (and to some extent Morley) broke through and became a ‘senior club’. The other ‘senior clubs’, at that time, in Yorkshire were Otley, Wakefield, Halifax, Bradford, Middlesborough, Hull and East Riding and Sheffield. If a talented player emerged at a ‘junior club’, he would usually get ‘poached’ and finish up at a ‘senior club’. I used to play for Moortown with Keith Smith (who sadly died of cancer whilst very young) who went on to play for Roundhay and he played a few times for England. Keith was brought up on Rugby League at Cross Green school. I also played with Brian Jefferson who went on to play Rugby League for Keighley and Great Britain. Brian played Rugby League at Blenheim school. As in all sports, it was very difficult for ‘junior clubs’ to hang on to their good players, but I also realise that talented sportsman have got to move ‘up’ to reach their goals, particularly nowadays when money is involved.‘Junior clubs’ could not get a regular fixture with ‘senior clubs’ as fixture lists went back years and were based on tradition, reputation, standing, etc. The only time that ‘junior clubs’ got to play them was in the Yorkshire Cup, or if there was a vacant fixture when a ‘pool system’, for teams without a fixture, was organised and you might get an odd game against them. Sometimes, over years, a regular fixture might be obtained against a ‘senior club ‘ second team such as Headingley Wanderers. I suppose that it was all part of the alleged snobbishness of Rugby Union, but it was very difficult for a ‘junior club’ to improve its fixture list against a ‘senior club’. Thankfully, in this modern era, with lots of well-organised, national and regional leagues, teams and clubs get promoted or relegated on their own merits. Things have changed a lot since those days, Wakefield does not exist any more, Hull and ER have teamed up with Hull Ionians, Headingley and Roundhay amalgamated to form Leeds Carnegie (was Leeds Tykes) and now they are also linked with West Park Leeds.Since player payments and professionalism have come into the game, personally, I think that standards have been raised at all levels, but particularly at senior levels, and money dictates how well, or how badly, a rugby club progresses or fails. Even some of the very ‘junior clubs’ are now paying players. I can also remember that in the 1960’s and early 1970’s, Moortown RUFC had a First team, Second team (Stags), ‘A’ team, ‘B’ team, Extra ‘A’ team, Extra ‘B’ team, over 40’s team and a Colts team. Many of the other local clubs had a similar set up. Nowadays, some of these clubs are struggling to turn out more than two teams, on a Saturday, for players over 18 years old. However, some clubs have thriving boys and youth teams. I often wonder why this is so, and why there are so few teams within clubs. What are these young men doing on Saturday afternoons instead of playing rugby, football or cricket (I understand that local football and cricket clubs have a similar problem)? They can’t all be playing on computers, fishing or going to shopping malls.From the previous posts, I do not remember a club called Alwoodley. I can remember playing Rugby League against Alwoodley junior school in the 1950’s but I can’t recall a ‘club’, as such.Ian    

[geoffb]

iansmithofotley wrote: Hi everyone,From the previous posts, I do not remember a club called Alwoodley. I can remember playing Rugby League against Alwoodley junior school in the 1950’s but I can’t recall a ‘club’, as such.Ian     Good post Ian evokes some good memories. I played for Alwoodley Primary in the early 60s and yes we played Queens Road and Quarry Mount on a regular basis. I played in a final against Queens Road at the Archie Gordon ground which was roughly where Morrisons at Kirkstall is now. Then went to Allerton Grange which at that time was Union only (no football at all)

[Chiron]

iansmithofotley wrote: Hi everyone,This thread is also very interesting for me as I have a keen interest in rugby – nowadays mainly Rugby Union. The problem that I have with some of the previous posts is trying to relate the various dates and decades when these clubs started, thrived or declined. I was born in 1946 and brought up in Woodhouse. At that time, many of the junior schools played Rugby League. I played for my local ‘county primary’ school, which was Quarry Mount, and I was the captain in 1956/57. I was lucky enough to pass my scholarship and went to Leeds Modern School, at Lawnswood, in 1957. At this time, I knew nothing about Rugby Union and it was a ‘rugby union’ school, so I had to learn the game. In those days, where I lived, the option for grammar schools was Leeds Modern (who played football and rugby union) and the Central High School, in the city centre, (which, I believe, in those days, only played football and not rugby). Some of the more wealthy families sent their boys to the fee-paying Leeds Grammar School, near to Hyde Park, which was also a ‘rugby union’ school. My school mates who were unsuccessful in their scholarship exams (11+) mainly went to Blenheim, which was a ‘rugby league’ school, but some went to Woodhouse School or Meanwood School and I have no idea what sports were played there.From memory, a lot of the secondary schools in south Leeds, and Hunslet, all played Rugby League. I seem to remember that Cockburn was a football school, Temple Moor was a Rugby Union school, Roundhay was a Rugby Union School and West Park was a Rugby Union School. There were other secondary modern schools such as Kirkstall, Bramley, etc., but I seem to remember that they all played Rugby League. I don’t have any real knowledge of what schools played what in the other areas of Leeds, particularly in south and east Leeds.So far as relates to my own school, Leeds Modern (now Lawnswood), it was a grammar school until 1971, when it became a comprehensive/secondary modern school. When I was there, in the first three years, we played rugby in the even years and football in the odd years. All this meant was that at the beginning of the school year, in September, we played rugby until Christmas, and then changed to football until spring and the cricket season. The following school year, it was the opposite way round. In the last two years, aged fifteen and sixteen, we had to choose between football or rugby for our last two years. The same thing applied to the sixth form. However, there were always some kids who were just very good at both rugby and football and represented the school at both games, when they could.In those days (1960’s), the school had an old boys association called the Old Modernians. Although rugby was played at the school, the Old Modernians only played football and cricket. The Old Modernians had no facilities of their own and all of the games were played on the school pitches. Because the Old Modernians did not play rugby, most of the lads that went on to play Rugby Union, after they had left school, went to Moortown RUFC. I do not know why, but this went on for years. Some of us played rugby for the school on Saturday mornings and also played for Moortown Colts in the afternoons. It was only in the late sixties/early seventies that the Old Modernians got their ground on Cookridge Lane and they started to play Rugby Union. West Park school played rugby but the West Park Old Boys RUFC teams also played their games on the school pitches until they got their ground at Bramhope, also in the sixties. Whilst they were still playing on the school pitches, they had an informal headquarters at the Welcome Inn at Tinshill, which they frequented for many years. From memory, at that time, Terry Robbins, an ex Welsh Rugby League player, who had previously been the licensee at the Fforde Greene, the Compton Arms, and also the Kings Arms (on Meanwood Road), was the licensee and supported the club. West Park Old Boys RUFC became West Park Bramhope RUFC and is now West Park Leeds RUFC (after the amalgamation of Headingley RUFC, Roundhay RUFC and now, also, the West Park club).As far as I am aware, many of the Leeds Rugby Union clubs were not ‘school’ ‘old boys’ clubs but their origins may have been connected with other organisations, trades or companies. Clubs like Headingley (originally Leeds St Johns), Roundhay, Bramley (originally Bramley Old Boys RUFC, then Bramley RUFC and now Bramley Phoenix RUFC – after an amalgamation with Bradford Phoenix RUFC), Burley, Leeds Corinthians, etc., were all such clubs with no school connections. Old Leodiensians, Old Roundhegians, West Leeds etc., were school ‘old boys’ teams. Like others have said, I remember playing Leeds Chirons (all schoolteachers) at Soldier’s Field. Funnily enough, when I was at Leeds Modern School, one of my form teachers was called Andrew Barclay and, as a Moortown Colt, I once played against him whilst playing for Moortown 2nds, as the Colts had no game. I also remember playing against Yorkshire Copper Works RUFC at Stourton, but that was part of a large sports club connected with the firm and many sports were played there.Moortown RUFC had regular fixtures with Carnegie College RUFC at Far Headingley and Leeds University RUFC at Weetwood. In those days, all Rugby Union was amateur and there were no leagues. Clubs got their fixtures over many years and clubs were informally referred to as ‘senior clubs’ and ‘junior clubs’. In the 1960’s, the only ‘senior’ club in Leeds was Headingley RUFC. The most senior of the ‘junior’ clubs in Leeds was Roundhay. Moortown, Leos, Morley, Bramley, West Leeds, Roundhegians, West Park, etc., all had good seasons and bad seasons depending on who was playing at the time. Later, Roundhay (and to some extent Morley) broke through and became a ‘senior club’. The other ‘senior clubs’, at that time, in Yorkshire were Otley, Wakefield, Halifax, Bradford, Middlesborough, Hull and East Riding and Sheffield. If a talented player emerged at a ‘junior club’, he would usually get ‘poached’ and finish up at a ‘senior club’. I used to play for Moortown with Keith Smith (who sadly died of cancer whilst very young) who went on to play for Roundhay and he played a few times for England. Keith was brought up on Rugby League at Cross Green school. I also played with Brian Jefferson who went on to play Rugby League for Keighley and Great Britain. Brian played Rugby League at Blenheim school. As in all sports, it was very difficult for ‘junior clubs’ to hang on to their good players, but I also realise that talented sportsman have got to move ‘up’ to reach their goals, particularly nowadays when money is involved.‘Junior clubs’ could not get a regular fixture with ‘senior clubs’ as fixture lists went back years and were based on tradition, reputation, standing, etc. The only time that ‘junior clubs’ got to play them was in the Yorkshire Cup, or if there was a vacant fixture when a ‘pool system’, for teams without a fixture, was organised and you might get an odd game against them. Sometimes, over years, a regular fixture might be obtained against a ‘senior club ‘ second team such as Headingley Wanderers. I suppose that it was all part of the alleged snobbishness of Rugby Union, but it was very difficult for a ‘junior club’ to improve its fixture list against a ‘senior club’. Thankfully, in this modern era, with lots of well-organised, national and regional leagues, teams and clubs get promoted or relegated on their own merits. Things have changed a lot since those days, Wakefield does not exist any more, Hull and ER have teamed up with Hull Ionians, Headingley and Roundhay amalgamated to form Leeds Carnegie (was Leeds Tykes) and now they are also linked with West Park Leeds.Since player payments and professionalism have come into the game, personally, I think that standards have been raised at all levels, but particularly at senior levels, and money dictates how well, or how badly, a rugby club progresses or fails. Even some of the very ‘junior clubs’ are now paying players. I can also remember that in the 1960’s and early 1970’s, Moortown RUFC had a First team, Second team (Stags), ‘A’ team, ‘B’ team, Extra ‘A’ team, Extra ‘B’ team, over 40’s team and a Colts team. Many of the other local clubs had a similar set up. Nowadays, some of these clubs are struggling to turn out more than two teams, on a Saturday, for players over 18 years old. However, some clubs have thriving boys and youth teams. I often wonder why this is so, and why there are so few teams within clubs. What are these young men doing on Saturday afternoons instead of playing rugby, football or cricket (I understand that local football and cricket clubs have a similar problem)? They can’t all be playing on computers, fishing or going to shopping malls.From the previous posts, I do not remember a club called Alwoodley. I can remember playing Rugby League against Alwoodley junior school in the 1950’s but I can’t recall a ‘club’, as such.Ian     Hi IanInterestingly, Andy Barclay now lives in Edinburgh and came to the Chirons Reunion(book launch) in May, he still looks very fit. Andy is on a photograph taken at the event that is on www.dropkickbooks.co.uk Andy is on the front row in a light coloured jumper second from the right.All the bestStuart    

[majorhoundii]

I may be wrong about Alwoodley - perhaps they were called something else and played at Alwoodley - it is after all nearly 50 years ago - but I was convinced we played them.As for Morley, I always believed they were a "senior" club in Yorkshire, along with Wakefield, Halifax and Sheffield. They certainly won the Yorkshire Cup on many occasions.Headingley of course were the senior club and wouldn't give the other clubs like Morley and Roundhay a 1st XV fixture.They were among the elite with the likes of Sale, Leicester, Bristol etc. and IIRC didn't compete in the Yorkshire cup for many years - until winning it gave access to the national John Player comp in the seventies.Morley along with Roundhay and Headingley were invited to merge to form the new Leeds RU. In true Morley fashion they refused. They also refused to join the Northern Union in 1895 - the story that the official delegated to attend missed the train because they were in the pub is just that - a story.

[biofichompinc]

majorhoundii wrote: Morley along with Roundhay and Headingley were invited to merge to form the new Leeds RU. In true Morley fashion they refused. They also refused to join the Northern Union in 1895 - the story that the official delegated to attend missed the train because they were in the pub is just that - a story. I prefer our local wisdom about the proposed merger. Morley were perfectly happy to merge with the other two clubs, as long as all home games were played at Scatcherd Lane, that the team played in maroon, and that the newly merged club went by the name of Morley Rugby Football Club.Or maybe that's just a story too.

[The Parksider]

Here's the Leeds Sunday Rugby League 1973East End ParkOld Red LionRoyal ParkBelle IsleCrabtree VickersLeeds City TransportYew TreeWhinmoorSheepscarBramley WaspsBRKBlue MoonStaging PostCorpus ChristiWoodwayKirkstall RecTetleysRichmondWoodhouse HillSerious ARL on a saturday wasBisonsThorpeStanningleyMilfordMiddleton ArmsWhich Old Red Lion? I wonder and I can't place the Blue Moon?all clubs typically in south, west and east Leeds, but somehow there were two clubs in whinmoor!