They are trying to kill off the arena!!!

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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

Oh dear everyoneLooks like the Labour group on the council are trying to block the use of the airport sale funds allocated for an arena.http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/ie... ... 4&J=10Just in case the link does not work then here is the link to the council site copied below:-Items No. Item 1. White Paper Motion - Proceeds from the sale of Leeds Bradford International Airport“Council notes that this authority has received just over £51m from the sale of Leeds/Bradford International Airport. This Council believes that all the citizens throughout the whole of the Leeds region should benefit from this one-off windfall. Council therefore resolves to distribute this income as follows:1.     Each of the 33 city wards is allocated £1m to be spent on local priorities by local people and their ward councillors within a framework to be set out by the Chief Executive. The council believes all citizens in Leeds should benefit from this windfall and must have their say in how this once in a lifetime money is spent.2.     A central fund of £15m to be established which will finance the building of council housing all across the city. The criteria for allocation to be set out by the Chief Executive.3.     The remainder of the money will then be used to improve the standard of sports pitches and public green spaces across the city.This Council therefore instructs that the Chief Executive submit a report setting out the criteria for each of these proposals to the next meeting of Council.”                                                            P Gruen.I have emiled this Peter Gruen fella,perhaps a few others should [email protected] like hes trying to score political points over the incumbent council whos plans for an arena may at last come to a fruition,something i believe the vast majority of our citizens want.Done a bit of digging on this chap,and without trying to sound ageist i would say that he would not probably use the facilities provided by the arena.Well just because he would not does not mean that we,as a city and as individuals,would not benefit culturally and financially, and therefore we ALL would benefit from the airport sale.Interestingly he has been a member of the council that has overseen selling off of sport pitches,now he wants to improve them.Unfortunately from what i can gather this is a motion put forward by the labour Group as a whole,which means it could well end up scuppering the £20M allocated for the arena from the Airport sale.As a labour voter i have informed this chap that if he is successful then i will not be voting for the party in local elections.
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raveydavey
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Post by raveydavey »

Peter Gruen is one of my ward councillors and he has always seemed an excellent councillor in my dealings with him.To be fair, it puzzles me why the council need to build the arena anyway. Did Manchester Council build the MEN Arena?If there were commercial reaons for it, then why haven't the private sector jumped in? If there is money to be made, where are they?Lets not forget that simply having an arena isn't enough, you need to attract events to fill it. Is there a sufficient audience to fill (say) a couple of nights at Leeds Arena on top of playing Sheffield and Manchester as well (both well under an hour away). Not many acts will play Manchester and Sheffield and then play Hull for example as well. Don't forget the costs involved with putting on a show and moving it from one venue to the next. Could the same incomes be achieved for the promoter by simply adding an extra night at an existing venue, for example?I'd rather this windfall went to some tangible assetts of real value to the city. Decent council housing seems a good start, as it is in dire supply at the moment.PS - I've just got tickets to go to the MEN Arena next year, so I do go fairly regularly to the Arena events, but you still can't convince me there is a sound business case for one in Leeds, despite what the YEP claims.
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simonm
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Post by simonm »

LCC will never sanction the building of an arena (ala sheffield arena, scumchester MEN, etc) To close to them. Too late to go spending shed loads on such a venture now. Also, Bothe sheffield and scumchester nearly had their councils go bust over such ventures and only private investors getting their hands on em for next to nowt saved the projects.What we have here is a 50,000 concert venue in ER. If LCC work together with LUAFC then there is no reason that big names could not be tempted back to Leeds. Kaiser chiefs are coming next year, so more of the same would be a massive boost to the local economy, also Roundhay park, temple newsome etc. All massive pulling power to the city, so long as it's all done well. Real problem is that LCC wil make a real sham of any attempt to promote such venues! We may be the 3rd largest city in England, but only in business terms. We lag so far nehind much smaller cities in the entertainment of it's residents! So long as big companies are banging in mney to the city LCC couldn't give a toss for owt else!! Shame!
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jf
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Post by jf »

Someone offered to build one with no public funding a while ago. I don't see why such a large public subsidy is needed - unless the events are provided free for the public (which won't happen). Otherwise it's just a big public subsidy for greedy sods like SJM concerts, Ticketmaster and big corporate recording artists, at the expense of decent local grassroots music venues which could make better use of just a fraction of that money. You could build a better case for funding the football club, which would probably be more popular.

simonm
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Post by simonm »

jf wrote: Someone offered to build one with no public funding a while ago. I don't see why such a large public subsidy is needed - unless the events are provided free for the public (which won't happen). Otherwise it's just a big public subsidy for greedy sods like SJM concerts, Ticketmaster and big corporate recording artists, at the expense of decent local grassroots music venues which could make better use of just a fraction of that money. You could build a better case for funding the football club, which would probably be more popular. Good reply, grass roots music venues is what LCC should be promoting, not massive venue spectacles. As to LUAFC, yes, lcc should be co-operating with each other to build a venue, fit for anything, either sports or mere entertainment!! We are missing such a massive opportunity, imho of course!
I WANT TO BE IN THE "INCROWD" :)"Those who sacrifice Liberty for security deserve neither!!"

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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

There was a private company willing to build an arena in Leeds for nowt.http://www.leedsarena.co.uk/All this company wanted was the council to "give" the necessary land and they would do everything else.Sounds good to me,if a private company sees there is an opportunity in Leeds for such an arena then clearly the demand must be there,investors do not go chucking money at something like this without good reason.For some reason or another the council did not take them up on their offer,and it would seem to be based on other promises the same company have made at other locations,and the company in question has not delivered in any of those other locations.
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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

simonm wrote: jf wrote: Someone offered to build one with no public funding a while ago. I don't see why such a large public subsidy is needed - unless the events are provided free for the public (which won't happen). Otherwise it's just a big public subsidy for greedy sods like SJM concerts, Ticketmaster and big corporate recording artists, at the expense of decent local grassroots music venues which could make better use of just a fraction of that money. You could build a better case for funding the football club, which would probably be more popular. Good reply, grass roots music venues is what LCC should be promoting, not massive venue spectacles. As to LUAFC, yes, lcc should be co-operating with each other to build a venue, fit for anything, either sports or mere entertainment!! We are missing such a massive opportunity, imho of course! How would promoting grass roots music benefit Leeds financially,it would not.If promoting grass roots music made a musician/s famous then they would end up being snapped up as a "big recording artist".
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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

Couple of points for Raveydavey.Firstly, the council have committed £2.6bn to start building 1000 council houses a year starting next year until 2020, irrespective of the arena or not, see YEP 06/12/2007.Secondly, it’s not the YEP who believe there is a business case for an arena. The council, commissioned consultants PMP to conduct a feasibility study which was delivered 13/12/2006, below is a copy from a Civic Trust Newsletter."Leeds City Council’s Executive Board has given the go ahead for the next phase of the Leeds Arena Project. At its meeting on 13 December the board approved the recommendation of the latest report from the consultants PMP. Leeds Civic Trust in a submission to the board gave its backing to the overall recommendations."So even the Leeds Civic trust are onboard for this!! (Letter continues).The Procurement Process"The City Council has opted for a two-stage procurement process for an arena and associated facilities. First it will secure an operator for an arena complex and then secure a developer/funder. This makes good sense because an arena will fail to attract a private sector operator if its facilities do not meet the needs of the operator, and Leeds City Council is very clear that it does not wish to run the arena itself.The Council’s target is to have an operator on board by the middle of 2007 and to go to the market to secure a developer/funder in the summer. If all goes well, it will enter into a contract for delivery in spring 2008."The FacilitiesThe aim is to provide a 12,500+ seat arena with conference and exhibition facilities. The arena would be sufficiently flexible to also accommodate events for say 3000 people. The Council’s view is that a 500-delegate capacity conference centre plus exhibition space would provide an amenity which would boost Leeds and the region, and complement rather than compete with existing facilities in Harrogate.Public Sector FundingThe major boost to the project is that the Council has committed £20m of public sector resources to the project. Councillor Andrew Carter addressing the Leeds Property Forum’s January meeting confirmed that this contribution might be entirely in money but it might also be a combination of money and land. He hopes that some of this £20m will come from other public sector agencies. No Lottery money will be sought.Leeds does actually need this arena, not only culturally, but financially. The arena will eventually bring in a regular stream of visitors to the city who will not only shell out for a ticket, but will also do as I and my friends do when we go to Manchester , that is spend cash in the locality. I worked out that me and my other half probably spend a round £60-£70 each when we stay over in a hotel, have a meal and drinks before and after, and that’s excluding a ticket for the event.If only 10% of the persons did the same in Leeds then that would be around £85,500 per night into the local economy, plus whatever the other 90% may or may not spend.You can increase this for people coming to make a few days stay, do some shopping etc.This is crucially based on location, in the environs of the city centre you would be able to replicate a good percentage of the success of the MEN, which is well placed in the heart of the city and enables visitors to wander around a bit.Out of the way like Sheffield and you will just have people turn up in their cars and put little into the local businesses because it’s in the middle of nowhere.As for attracting events to Leeds, the council had planned to build a smaller temporary structure whilst a state of the art complex was being built. This was to re establish the city on the “Big” circuit once more to eventually have Leeds as part of the normal tour schedule for acts by the time the arena proper was built.I agree that getting acts to do this with Manchester and Sheffield nearby would not be straight forward, but as the Leeds arena will be considerably smaller than the MEN then it is quite likely to attract the kind of acts that can’t fill the MEN, as that place is great when full, but pants when half full. Couple of points for Simonm,Leeds council will not be promoting the venue, see Leeds Civic trust letter above.As for Roundhay Park and Elland Road, these are great seasonally, not in winter, and having one gig a decade is hardly going to make a big difference to the economy.It’s Bramham Park that is used each year in August, most people camp at this virtual island of a festival, and therefore we just receive a boost in profile as a city, but not such a big financial one as once the promoters have paid the council then the rest is theirs, we need people to come to Leeds and spend.An arena, with regular events, will boost visitor numbers to the city, enabling businesses to grow (both nationals and locals) this will in turn boost employment, take up of empty retail/leisure units in the city, encourage redevelopment in run down areas (e.g. Kirkgate /Vicar Lane) which will in turn boost the councils coffers from an increase collected business rates, this money in turn can be ploughed back into the city, all of this irrespective of ticket sales.
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roundhegian
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Post by roundhegian »

raveydavey wrote: Peter Gruen is one of my ward councillors and he has always seemed an excellent councillor in my dealings with him.To be fair, it puzzles me why the council need to build the arena anyway. Did Manchester Council build the MEN Arena?If there were commercial reaons for it, then why haven't the private sector jumped in? If there is money to be made, where are they?Lets not forget that simply having an arena isn't enough, you need to attract events to fill it. Is there a sufficient audience to fill (say) a couple of nights at Leeds Arena on top of playing Sheffield and Manchester as well (both well under an hour away). Not many acts will play Manchester and Sheffield and then play Hull for example as well. Don't forget the costs involved with putting on a show and moving it from one venue to the next. Could the same incomes be achieved for the promoter by simply adding an extra night at an existing venue, for example?I'd rather this windfall went to some tangible assetts of real value to the city. Decent council housing seems a good start, as it is in dire supply at the moment.PS - I've just got tickets to go to the MEN Arena next year, so I do go fairly regularly to the Arena events, but you still can't convince me there is a sound business case for one in Leeds, despite what the YEP claims. Why not use the money from the sale of the airport to part-finance the Leeds Supertram scheme - a capital project of benefit to a large swathe of the city and its population ?
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raveydavey
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Post by raveydavey »

I have many problems with "council" money being put into the arena.Firstly is that fact that the council and other public bodies (Metro for example) seem to have no idea how to control costs which are allowed to spiral out of control. I also have first hand of the council legal team giving the OK to a PFI contract, only to discover that all the lovely parking spaces on the plans were actually "proposed parking" on an "artists impression" which the developer now says they can't afford to incorporate and due to the contract have no legal obligation to provide either. Oh dear.Incompetent is the word that springs to mind.If the council say the arena will cost £20 million, then I'd wager it will end up costing twice that or more. As I have said, if there is the demand for it, private companies would be queuing up to build one. As it is, once again LCC have missed the boat.As for building a smaller arena, why bother? The MEN and Hallam Arenas can seat 12,000+ people, but also have the flexibility to use various set ups of stage / seating reducing that figure (for less popular artistes) by around a half. This negates the need for a smaller arena in Leeds - small acts can already be accomodated elsewhere and big acts won't play a small arena, will they?Turning to location, the MEN is ideal situated in the city centre and so attracts additional trade / bsuiness which is great for the local economy. Sheffield Arena is on an industrial estate just off the motorway so contributes little to the local economy.As far as I can see all the proposed sites are well away from the city centre - Elland Road, or somewhere down the yet to be completed East Leeds Radial Road near the unused motorway junction are regularly named. So straight off/ on the motorway for most visitors then.The only "city centre" site suggested is the former railway yard off Marsh Lane opposite the Kremlin. Hardly city square though is it? With the exception of maybe two bars there is little within sensible walking distance to tempt anyone away from the arena as things stand.
Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act – George Orwell

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