The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

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Leodian
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby Leodian » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:13 pm

Thanks all for your extremely interesting posts :).

You ask Jack "Leodian, Is it possible to access records of the Beats of that area at that time.?". Unfortunately I don't know but hopefully records would have been made at the time and if so they may still be stored somewhere. If they are it would be fascinating to read them.
A rainbow is a ribbon that Nature puts on when she washes her hair.
jma
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby jma » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 10:55 am

On the subject of archived material from long ago, I doubt if much, if any, exists that hasn't already been put in the public domain although even then, unless it's online it may be as good as lost if it's hard to trace. Cataloguing of stuff that may eventually be priceless is not a priority in the early days when something is still pretty much waste paper. Remember, the police service is renowned for creating paperwork. Storage space is always at a premium and old paper records are both a serious fire risk and potentially a home for rodents etc. With increasing public concern about data protection adding to traditional concerns about security, a lot of the emphasis has been on destruction rather than retention.

Any move to a new building tends to trigger some weeding, to put it mildly.

I think the biggest clear out of Leeds City Police records occurred following the 1974 amalgamation which formed the West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police. Ronald Gregory, the new force's chief constable was keen to have a fresh start, getting rid of parochialism, nostalgia for the former forces, whatever you like to call it. In those days, the former hospital Oulton Hall had been bought for conversion into a new force headquarters: the buildings were largely derelict and the project was eventually dropped with the sale for development as a ***** hotel. (That's 5 star.) For some years the grounds were used for public order training and more to the point, for several years in the mid to late 1970's a huge bonfire was held on Nov 5 when the whole force was encouraged to turn out old paperwork for confidential destruction. When I say "huge" my memory is of bonfires larger than a pair of semi's, which the CC took delight in lighting personally.

I know that there are records here at Gildersome in the West Yorkshire County Archives and no doubt developments like microfiches and digitisation have ended the storage problems but there must be some selectivity about what's converted for storage and obviously, the old stuff that's already gone can't be recreated.

(I know something about this because when clean air legislation stopped the incineration of confidential waste, I worked on a project to consider bulk shredding. That was in the early 1980's.)
volvojack
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby volvojack » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 10:43 am

Can't find where i wanted to post this so hope no one minds too much....
A message to jma. and Ian. My Nephew got his credentials at the passing out Ceremony in Wakefield last Thursday and has been assigned to Elland Road. All the family are so proud.
jma
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby jma » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 11:32 am

volvojack wroteColonCan't find where i wanted to post this so hope no one minds too much....
A message to jma. and Ian. My Nephew got his credentials at the passing out Ceremony in Wakefield last Thursday and has been assigned to Elland Road. All the family are so proud.


That's as good a reason as any for a return visit to Leeds. :D

I wish him well and I hope he enjoys his career as much as I did, but bearing in mind that I'm approaching the twentieth anniversary of my retirement, his experience will be different in many respects. By coincidence, I've been chatting this morning with another old man - four years younger than me - who lives at the other end of our street and he was brought up just round the back of Dewsbury Road Police Station so he would have been eighteen when I started there. Time flies.

They keep reorganising divisional boundaries so I no longer know who covers what. Once upon a time, Holbeck Division as it became covered Gildersome, but I've no idea if that applies to the new place on Elland Road. Anyway, it's reassuring to old men like me that a new generation of young people are there to look after us. :D Give him my best wishes and don't tell him any of your tales like the one about the breakdown truck: you don't want him checking the old "wanted" files. ;)

iansmithofotley
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby iansmithofotley » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 8:56 pm

volvojack wroteColonCan't find where i wanted to post this so hope no one minds too much....
A message to jma. and Ian. My Nephew got his credentials at the passing out Ceremony in Wakefield last Thursday and has been assigned to Elland Road. All the family are so proud.


Hi Jack,

I am very pleased that your nephew has got a job in his chosen career. I hope that he enjoys it and gets a lot of job satisfaction from it. Like in any job, he will have his 'highs' and 'lows', but the secret is to just keep working hard through the 'lows' and the good times will come again. He has my best wishes.

Ian
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tyke bhoy
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby tyke bhoy » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 10:16 pm

jma wroteColon[

They keep reorganising divisional boundaries so I no longer know who covers what. Once upon a time, Holbeck Division as it became covered Gildersome, but I've no idea if that applies to the new place on Elland Road.
Elland Road repalced the "New" Dewsbury Road so I had assumed like that it was City and Holbeck. However it looks like City has its own District even if the only Police presence I'm aware of is the Bridewell and a "University station" opposite Old Broadcasting House. Elland Road appears to be Leeds Inner South (Middleton, Beeston, Hunslet and Belle Isle) while there is a Leeds Outer South stretching from Woodlesford through Rothwell, East and West Ardsley, Tingley, Morley and Guildersome to almost Drighlington Explanations here https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/leeds of the map embedded on that pageImage
living a stones throw from the Leeds MDC border at Lofthouse

http://tykebhoy.wordpress.com/
volvojack
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby volvojack » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 10:29 am

iansmithofotley wroteColon
volvojack wroteColonCan't find where i wanted to post this so hope no one minds too much....
A message to jma. and Ian. My Nephew got his credentials at the passing out Ceremony in Wakefield last Thursday and has been assigned to Elland Road. All the family are so proud.


Hi Jack,

I am very pleased that your nephew has got a job in his chosen career. I hope that he enjoys it and gets a lot of job satisfaction from it. Like in any job, he will have his 'highs' and 'lows', but the secret is to just keep working hard through the 'lows' and the good times will come again. He has my best wishes.

Thank you Ian, will pas on from yourself and jma. to the lad.
Jack Daly.
jma
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Re: The beats of the police of the Borough of Leeds in 1844.

Postby jma » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 11:17 am

tyke bhoy

Thanks for that. One way or another, I don't expect to see volvojack's nephew or any other young bobbies, for that matter, working a fixed beat around here.

This has all reminded me that I have a copy of Sir Robert Mark's autobiography In the Office of Constable. It covers a lot of ground in a career which saw him retire as the Metropolitan Commissioner but there's a chapter The Police I Joined which describes Manchester City Police in the 1930's when fixed beats were still the norm and the main change from the 1840's was that the people back at the station could operate a flashing light on top of the police box to attract the attention of the beat PC.

The method of working (the beats) varied each day, the starting point and direction, clockwise or anticlockwise, being changed to make our movements less predictable. Many of the inspectors and sergeants looked on their juniors (....) as fair game (...) To hide behind a building to catch a constable two or three minutes late on his point was routine, the result being a discipline form and and a two shillings and sixpence fine.


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