Coal Mining in East Leeds

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chameleon
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Postby chameleon » Tue 30 Dec, 2008 9:47 pm

grumpytramp wrote:
The Parksider wrote:
I was basically trying to check on foundry Mill. I have the idea the last mill was a corn mill but stood on the site of an earlier foundry!


You are correct regarding the mill being a corn mill. Take a look at the OS 1:10,560 sheet of 1851 on old-maps.co.uk and the Foundary Mill is identified as being a Corn mill


My problem grumpytramp, is reconciling those positions with current maps and landmarks - I've never been convinced I've got it right for some reason.
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Postby chameleon » Tue 30 Dec, 2008 10:18 pm

chameleon wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
The Parksider wrote:
I was basically trying to check on foundry Mill. I have the idea the last mill was a corn mill but stood on the site of an earlier foundry!


You are correct regarding the mill being a corn mill. Take a look at the OS 1:10,560 sheet of 1851 on old-maps.co.uk and the Foundary Mill is identified as being a Corn mill


My problem grumpytramp, is reconciling those positions with current maps and landmarks - I've never been convinced I've got it right for some reason.


Looking again at the maps old and newer, I can still see where it should have been in today's terms but the repeated references to the cut from Wyke (White) Beck to feed the mill pond leave me questioning things. The land there as we see today and as seen from the maps apears to almost be higher than the beck. At the same time, an out-flow from the Pond at Seacroft Hall runs past and close to, the Mill site, clearly running to the lower levels of Wyke Beck. Wouldn't that suggest a feed for the mill pond from this?    
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Postby The Parksider » Wed 31 Dec, 2008 11:53 am



My problem grumpytramp, is reconciling those positions with current maps and landmarks - I've never been convinced I've got it right for some reason.

Looking again at the maps old and newer, I can still see where it should have been in today's terms but the repeated references to the cut from Wyke (White) Beck to feed the mill pond leave me questioning things. The land there as we see today and as seen from the maps apears to almost be higher than the beck. At the same time, an out-flow from the Pond at Seacroft Hall runs past and close to, the Mill site, clearly running to the lower levels of Wyke Beck. Wouldn't that suggest a feed for the mill pond from this?    

I'm not too hot on watercourses, but some in the Dales (Grassington Moor) are very long indeed. I had the impression that if you stand where the foundry mill was and look up the valley there will be a point where the Wyke Beck is higher than the mill pond? If a watercourse were to work it would be cut from that point. That would make for a very very long watercourse running on the flat and then hillside to the mill.

I assume that the side of the wyke valley would be waste land as it is today and mainly in the ownership of one person (or common land) so cutting a very long course may not have been a big deal as it may have been mainly into turf.

That is not the definitive answer of a Phd but just a stab mate - go easy on me!!!
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Postby The Parksider » Wed 31 Dec, 2008 11:57 am

[quotenick="chameleon At the same time, an out-flow from the Pond at Seacroft Hall runs past and close to, the Mill site, clearly running to the lower levels of Wyke Beck. Wouldn't that suggest a feed for the mill pond from this?    

How was the pond fed at Seacroft Hall????

If it wasn't from a natural stream flowing into it, it's outflow may only provide water in a limited amount and at times not at all?

Wyke beck runs continuously all year round.

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Postby chameleon » Wed 31 Dec, 2008 6:46 pm

The Parksider wrote:
[quotenick="chameleon At the same time, an out-flow from the Pond at Seacroft Hall runs past and close to, the Mill site, clearly running to the lower levels of Wyke Beck. Wouldn't that suggest a feed for the mill pond from this?    


How was the pond fed at Seacroft Hall????

If it wasn't from a natural stream flowing into it, it's outflow may only provide water in a limited amount and at times not at all?

Wyke beck runs continuously all year round.


The pond seems to feature as a permanent feature during its day, I certainly couldn't deduce that it was ever dry or drying from the stories I was told - but that could be my young minds intereptation (then, not know!).

There was a strem running SW towards the pond from accross York Road and and the Swarcliffe area which looks as though it would feed this.

Down stream of the pond, the stream would run in the bottom of the small valley, a littleremoved from the York Road as it was - this was loined by a tributary from the area of the Inglewood Dutch Sstyle houses.

Even after the pond was drained and filled, I rmember that walking home from Parklands School 'the back way', would take you accross this lightly wooded area and upon approaching the houses, I remember there was a shrp, rough yellow-stoned, escarpment, for want of a better word, from which water would pour at various levels (possibly from pipes uesd to contain the once stream?).

This even then, provided a constant if slow flow, down towards the wasteland aside the old Melbourne (where the Police Station now stands) and then down Foundry Lane, partly in pipes, partly above ground, towards Wyke Beck.
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Postby The Parksider » Wed 31 Dec, 2008 8:12 pm

chameleon wrote:
The Parksider wrote:
[quotenick="chameleon At the same time, an out-flow from the Pond at Seacroft Hall runs past and close to, the Mill site, clearly running to the lower levels of Wyke Beck. Wouldn't that suggest a feed for the mill pond from this?    


How was the pond fed at Seacroft Hall????

If it wasn't from a natural stream flowing into it, it's outflow may only provide water in a limited amount and at times not at all?

Wyke beck runs continuously all year round.


The pond seems to feature as a permanent feature during its day, I certainly couldn't deduce that it was ever dry or drying from the stories I was told - but that could be my young minds intereptation (then, not know!).

There was a strem running SW towards the pond from accross York Road and and the Swarcliffe area which looks as though it would feed this.

Down stream of the pond, the stream would run in the bottom of the small valley, a littleremoved from the York Road as it was - this was loined by a tributary from the area of the Inglewood Dutch Sstyle houses.

Even after the pond was drained and filled, I rmember that walking home from Parklands School 'the back way', would take you accross this lightly wooded area and upon approaching the houses, I remember there was a shrp, rough yellow-stoned, escarpment, for want of a better word, from which water would pour at various levels (possibly from pipes uesd to contain the once stream?).

This even then, provided a constant if slow flow, down towards the wasteland aside the old Melbourne (where the Police Station now stands) and then down Foundry Lane, partly in pipes, partly above ground, towards Wyke Beck.

Sounds like the pond was fed from a spring?

Even with a continuous flow the input to the mill pond needs to match the output for the waterwheel??

Looked on an OS map in Leeds and it seems to show a contour around where the mill used to be that if you trace it northwards up the beck it hits the beck at just below the easterly road crossing possibly consistent with Burt's watercourse.

For some reason the mill was built up away from the stream. I am no expert but maybe it was OK for victorian engineers to construct mills adjacent streams and rivers, but a more difficult job in the older days to construct on wet ground.

There's an old cornmill in Woodside that is above the beck, but haven't looked that up to see how it may have been powered?

Happy new year again!
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Postby The Parksider » Thu 01 Jan, 2009 11:47 am

chameleon wrote:


There was a strem running SW towards the pond from accross York Road and and the Swarcliffe area which looks as though it would feed this.



Try the old-maps 1851 map of seacroft on line.

The Foundry Mill pond has a clear line feeding it at the north west point.

If you follow that (and following lines of streams is difficult because they seem to blend into lines of field boundaries which they mainly were as well) you can follow it up to the east side of Fox wood where it becomes wiggly and so seems to be clearly a stream.

It passes up crossing Baileys lane and seems to start up near the coal road.

If you can follow that line check the contours - they are fairly clear and easy to follow and the stream? line clearly drops downwards in a slight "valley".

The seacroft hall "fish pond" is on the map and whatever it is fed from may feed out at the other end and drop down towards the melbourne pub site before taking off towards the Foundry Mill ponds. Field boundaries take you all the way down to the pond but are not clear wether the boundary incorporates a stream.

No reason why more than one water tributary should not have fed the pond.

Along wyke beck there are more tributaries called "Reins" a word not in the oxford English dictionary but meaning a collection ground for water that becomes a stream.

Near the Grange there is Arthurs Rein and on the other side (To the north of the foxwood rein that seems to be feeding the Mill pond) is Baileys rein latterly called The Rein and it is still there today and has (as you know) a road named after it.

The stream that comes from this "valley" comes out of a culvert in asket crescent, and although it never fed the foundry Mill pond I guess from the map the next one down did.

The Rein Culvert never dried up in summer If I recall correctly (I went to school at Asket hill) nor did the next tributary to the Wyke beck going north which is still flowing today and joins the wyke beck at Dib Lane junction flowing down from Roundhay Grange.

In asket hill school we had two football pitches. One was a waste of time because it had a spring above it that poured water onto it.
I went looking for it some time ago. To my amazement the school had gone!! So had the spring so it must have been drained some other way.

But it seems clear that the hillsides above the wykebeck collected and ran with a series of tributaries two of which could have fed the mill pond.
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Postby chameleon » Thu 01 Jan, 2009 12:40 pm

Yes, I think you're right and, I am thinking that the 'cut' to Wyke Beck refered to was most likely the out-flow away from the mill.

I do have difficulty following the old on-line maps - they can be rather indescrete, and a couple of hard copies I've purchased in the past don't offer as much clarity as I would have hoped for!

Following the line you describe to the NW and translating this to the 1934-50 OS map, the stream is vissible in part, disappearing to go under what would become Foxwood School and projecting as you say towards the mill pond rather than west to Wyke Beck.

At the distal end, it is not marked as a stream (possibly culverted by then) but the coincident field boundary does continue to end in a small pool/pond at what is now the junction of the Ring Road/Ramshead Approach ( edited: probably a little further south of here) adjacent to the Coal Road which would seem to be its origin - certainly everything on the other side of the Coal Road flows more towards Grimes Dyke and the Cock Beck.

Athur's Rein similarly shows the features you mention clearly, if incompletely.

Progress! and I'm in trouble for being spread around the room when I should be tending to Dinner Wink    

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Postby The Parksider » Thu 01 Jan, 2009 1:59 pm

chameleon wrote:
Yes, I think you're right and, I am thinking that the 'cut' to Wyke Beck refered to was most likely the out-flow away from the mill.

I do have difficulty following the old on-line maps - they can be rather indescrete, and a couple of hard copies I've purchased in the past don't offer as much clarity as I would have hoped for!

Following the line you describe to the NW and translating this to the 1934-50 OS map, the stream is vissible in part, disappearing to go under what would become Foxwood School and projecting as you say towards the mill pond rather than west to Wyke Beck.

At the distal end, it is not marked as a stream (possibly culverted by then) but the coincident field boundary does continue to end in a small pool/pond at what is now the junction of the Ring Road/Ramshead Approach adjacent to the Coal Road which would seem to be its origin - certainly everything on the other side of the Coal Road flows more towards Grimes Dyke and the Cock Beck.

Athur's Rein similarly shows the features you mention clearly, if incompletely.

Progress! and I'm in trouble for being spread around the room when I should be tending to Dinner Wink


Naturally the stream from Ramshead down to Baileys lane, through foxwood should continue to the wyke beck. If we do have a major source of the Founry Mill dam water then the stream will have been diverted on a watercourse across to the Mill pond in it's lower progression???.

Now that stream has gone is there still a natural flow of water down that "mini valley" and is culverted and so not visible?

Maybe it can be found at the culvert outflow - possibly a walk of wyke back may reveal a series of culverted inlets

Maybe the major reshaping of the land (Foxwood was my second school and massive earth movements created a multi-terrace school playing field) has led to the water in that area going in a different direction nowadays??

I feel a "field trip" coming on.....
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Postby chameleon » Thu 01 Jan, 2009 2:30 pm

'Maybe the major reshaping of the land (Foxwood was my second school and massive earth movements created a multi-terrace school playing field) has led to the water in that area going in a different direction nowadays??'

And I remember Matthew Rowlands (Head) describing the meticulous way the contractors of the time undertook this work, scrping off the top soil and burying it under the clay to produce the winter quagmire!

MIni Stream reminds me of an instance a few years back during trential rain, sitting at the Fforde Green traffic lights coming from Easterly Road, and watching a significant stream form from Harehills Lane, going accross Roundhay Road, down the incline and as if be magic, turning sharp left down a back road!

Looking at themaps later, this left turn took the water onto what would have been the surface track of the beck from Oakwood - a stark reminder that you can't defeat nature.

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