Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Off-topic discussions, musings and chat
Post Reply
volvojack
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue 26 Jan, 2016 11:57 am

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by volvojack »

In the early 70s when Sunday lunchtime drinking was still restricted the Beech pub in Tong Road ( who used to have it's share of small time villians) was ran by Stan Dodds ex. Leeds R. L who was quite popular especially as he started serving beer at 10 a.m. cars were parked all around the pub. I was in there one Sunday morning about 11a.m. and the place was packed. suddenly a hush fell over the Tap room and as I looked through from the Snug two men in raincoats had walked in, most likely they were from Wortley Nick and probably known to one or two in there. Darts, Dominoes and drinking stopped, like frozen in time. one Detective said "What's all this then Landlord ?" Stan replied rather weakly "Fishing section meeting Officer"
After a quick look around it was obvious they were after someone a bit bigger so with a "Let's not be having too many fishing meetings eh Guv'nor " they were gone.

They were what I would refer to as Police Officers, getting on with the job of catching criminals, not just walking about being officious.

MiggyBill
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by MiggyBill »

In the very early 70's I used to knock about Beeston, mainly Rowland Road area, with a gang of lads called the "Beeston Blue Stamps". We were a motley crew, short of life experience and a nuisance to the locals half the time, anyway to the point. There was a beat bobby out of Dewsbury Road (Holbeck) nick, a Scottish guy who I am sure was called John, he was a great guy, knew how to talk to us, we loved hearing his stories as he hid behind us in Hemingways doorway having a ciggie, we never messed him about and looked forward to seeing him. On the other hand there was a bobby called Cavanagh, I think he may have been CID but not sure, he was always giving us grief and us him in return, although looking back we asked for it.
Still on topic, my mum had some good friends in the force, 2 I remember very well were (Uncle) Dennis Moran, and "Uncle" Sed Paver. There were others that I never knew very well, please see attached pics of their cards.
Attachments
005.jpg
005.jpg (26.81 KiB) Viewed 4841 times
004.jpg
004.jpg (34.46 KiB) Viewed 4841 times
002.jpg
002.jpg (35.45 KiB) Viewed 4841 times

iansmithofotley
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri 28 Dec, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by iansmithofotley »

Hi MiggyBill

I knew, and worked with some of the people, who you have mentioned, in the Leeds City Police. I served at the old Dewsbury Road Police Station as a uniform sergeant in 1972/73 and as a detective sergeant in 1973/75. I do not know who the Scottish officer called John was, without a surname. I also did not know the officer called Gibbs.

So far as relates to the other people mentioned, Shaun Kavanagh (969) was a detective constable on my team in 1973. I think that he went on to work in the Regional Crime Squad but left the force prematurely. Dennis Moran (18) was a uniform constable on my shift in 1973 and he died aged 68 in 1992. I worked with Cedric Paver (626) on the Leeds Crime Squad in 1968/69. He later became an inspector and died in 1999 aged 66. I knew Maurice Roberts from his time in the Regional Crime Squad and in Divisional C.I.D. He retired as a superintendent and he died in 1996 aged 68.

It is a great shame that these officers died at such young ages after completing thirty years Police Service and also Military Service.

I knew Jim Gunning very well. He was a detective sergeant at Upper Wortley Police Station when I joined in 1965. We went on to work together in the Leeds Crime Squad from 1968 until 1972 when I left the department. He retired as a sergeant and later moved to Morecambe where he died in 2013, aged 88. During the war, he served in the RAF or Parachute Regiment and was involved in the ‘parachute drop’ at the Battle of Arnhem, in Holland, in 1944, where he was captured upon landing and was taken prisoner.

I have very happy memories of working with all of these people in the Leeds City Police.

Ian

MiggyBill
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by MiggyBill »

Hi Ian, thank you for that lovely reply, and yes it is sad reading of the deaths at such young ages.
In 1960 ish we lived next door to Ced on Chapel Hill, Middleton. I was only a toddler at the time but remember him letting me wear his helmet and play with his handcuffs, I think he had a brother who was a policeman too. After we moved he would call for cuppas and a chat with my mam. I called him Uncle Ced even when I was older.

Another Uncle, Denis Moran, was a very frequent caller for cuppas throughout the 60s and 70's, sometimes calling with other bobbies when they were on our beat. I even remember him watching the FA cup final at our house when he was on call, radio's had only been introduced a short while and halfway through the second half he was contacted to attend somewhere, he didn't half curse the walkie talkie! On another occasion when I was about 12 he called and noticed I had a typewriter that I had bought at a jumble sale, he offered me 10 bob for it, I snapped his hand off, I had only paid two bob for it. It was a huge black heavy thing and much too heavy to carry for any distance so he called for a panda car to attend our address, when the car pulled up my mam noticed Mrs Wright over the road peeking through the curtains having a nosey at to what the police car was up to, she remarked to Denis that Mrs Wright doesn't miss a trick. When Denis was putting the typewriter in the boot of the panda he shouted quite loudly to my mam "We'll be back with a van for the rest of the stolen goods!" and with that jumped in the car and drove off. I'll never forget how embarrassed my mam looked. "I'll bloody kill him when I get my hands on him" makes me smile even now nearly 50 years later.

Jim Gunning was a regular too although I was probably too old to call him uncle, I know my mam liked him and always made a fuss when he called, I think I was some times asked to "disappear" when he called, it always seemed more important than when Ced or Denis would call, similar with a few other bobbies and there were many that I do not know the names of. When I have talked to my sisters about all the bobbies my mam knew I always joke that she must have been an informer, although what she would be informing about I don't know. Jims wartime story is quite moving too, he had quite a life.

I don't have a surname for "Scottish" John, I believe he had dark hair and a mild Scottish accent, it was usually on a night when he would approach us and ask us to stand in the front of Hemingways doorway and keep a look out while he got behind us and had a ciggie. He would tell us some fantastic stories of catching gangsters or discovering dead bodies complete with gory details etc. I suppose it was his way of getting to know titbits and sussing us out, keeping his nose to the ground so to say. We all liked him.

For some reason we never got on with Shaun Kavanagh, I don't know why but I do know we used to wind him up by running away every time we saw him, and he used to bite! Usually he would be in a panda car, Vauxhall Vivas I think they were, I think he would be in the passenger seat if I remember correctly. The car would be flying all over Lady pit Lane, Rowland road, Stratford Street etc. We did this on a few occasions but then one night when we ran off again, can I add we hadn't done anything wrong other than there were about 15 of us roaming the streets, we ran across Dewsbury Road and into Grandways car park and low and behold all the exits were blocked by police cars, dog vans and the like, needless to say we were rounded up and carted off to the old station opposite the Junction. Well, there were so many of us there wasn't enough cells so 5 or 6 of us ended up in the snooker room upstairs. We were kept for ages before we were let out. I think the sly old fox had sussed us out and planned on us running into the car park. He had the last laugh, we never messed him about again.

Happy memories of bygone times.

iansmithofotley
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri 28 Dec, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by iansmithofotley »

Hi MiggyBill,

Cedric's brother was Selwyn Paver (449), who I knew as a uniform sergeant. There was also another Paver in the force called Ralph Paver (57) who died in 1994 aged 63. He served for many, many years as a scenes of crime officer. I don't know whether or not he was related to the others.

Ian

MiggyBill
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by MiggyBill »

iansmithofotley wrote:Hi MiggyBill,

Cedric's brother was Selwyn Paver (449), who I knew as a uniform sergeant. There was also another Paver in the force called Ralph Paver (57) who died in 1994 aged 63. He served for many, many years as a scenes of crime officer. I don't know whether or not he was related to the others.

Ian
Hello again, yes it was Selwyn who was Ceds brother, you have jogged my memory, as for Ralph Paver, another fairly young guy to leave us!, I don't know him but it's odds on they were related, after all Paver is not that common a name plus they were all in the police force so it looks like it was a family trait. Thanks again Ian for replying.

Billy.

used to use the name "Billy Britvic" on here before it all went a bit dodgy.

volvojack
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue 26 Jan, 2016 11:57 am

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by volvojack »

Reference collar number. My Grandfather Leach was a sergeant in the Leeds Police around the 1900s, I have a picture which I will get one of the family to put on here. The number looks like a crown and then 139 so maybe some one later can confirm that..

jma
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by jma »

I'm happy to stand corrected over my trainspotting: my main purpose was to say something positive about David Noble in answer to the query from his grandson. We used to have some hectic times at Elland Road in Leeds United's heyday. Glasgow Rangers have been mentioned. I remember one match where their spectators were mainly in the old kop at the Gelderd Road end. There were supposed to be checks for booze at the turnstyles but during the match there seemed to be a steady hail of bottles and even glasses - drinks glasses, not specs - showering down so that by full-time the area behind the goal at that end was sparkling under a layer of broken glass.

I'll try to think who the Scottish PC at Dewsbury Road might have been. The main problem is that anybody from up there was immediately dubbed "Jock" and their surname was added if necessary. Off the top of my head the only exception to this I can remember was 406 Arnold Pirie. We were neighbours in Coppers' Colony (Greenhill Close) when I was recently back fron Pannal (training centre) and he was newly arrived having been lured to Leeds by the then chief constable, also a Scot called Alex Paterson (and come to think of it, I never heard him referred to as Jock) who promised to recognise his Scottish promotion exam pass, but then died suddenly on a conference in Tokyo and the promise was never honoured by successors.

Of other people mentioned in recent posts, 969 Shaun Kavanagh lives in Gildersome next door to 454 David Ogle who was a sergeant during my time at Dewsbury Road and was mentioned earlier in the thread. After retiring from the police he worked for a bank. When he left the bank, his job there was taken by 371 Paul Cook who used to live up my street. I still see him about, mainly when we collect our grandchildren from Gildersome Primary School. His "claim to fame" is that he served as mayor of Morley a couple of years ago. 881 Neville Oughtibridge lives a few doors along from Dave and Shaun. 667 Mick Beaumont lives just round the corner from me. I'm surprised that Shaun worked in uniform at Dewsbury Road. He started (in 1968) at Wortley and I thought he went from there into CID.

I worked quite a lot - not always actually working - with 18 Dennis Moran. Fresh back from Pannal, I started on the same shift as he was already on at Dewsbury Road and during my first week we were both on "half-nights" 6pm - 2am. One night he smuggled me into the back of the nick some time before we were due to finish. He then gave me a lot of fatherly advice, most of it about women and not all of it appropriate for repeating here. In particular I remember "Never get involved with policewomen or other policemen's wives, especially ex-policewomen married to policemen." Another nugget was "If ever you are nicked, even if you are caught with your hands in the till, say nothing and plead not guilty. The jury will believe you."

After a quick succession of several inspectors on our shift: Bob Byrne, Mick Hirst (who went on to become Chief Constable of Leicester and took a lot of flak in retirement as a top man at Group 4 when prisoners kept escaping) 628 Eric "Moose" Walker we got Harry "Mr Bot" Bottomley who selected me (as the newest on the shift) and Dennis to move to another shift when numbers had to be evened out. I suspect I didn't match his style of policing.

MiggyBill: I'm only 5'8" which was the minimum height in those days. (Just before I retired I had a PC on my shift so short I could see over the top of his head when he was wearing a cap.) If you remember your Uncle Dennis visiting with a small policeman, it will have been me, although I don't recall any typewriters.

449 Selwyn Paver (who had transferred from the West Riding I think) was already in Plain Clothes when I was posted there in April 1971. There were only 4 of us A sergeant and 3 PCs so I worked quite a bit with Selwyn. He was already a sergeant at Wortley when I went there on promotion in April 1974 and he was the admin sergeant at Leeds Bridewell when I moved there in 1979. He had a particularly busy job there because of a period of industrial action by the Prison Officers' Association who were not accepting prisoners from the police. This meant that in addition to people held at the most overnight to appear in court, we had people for weeks on end who had been remanded in custody or sentenced by magistrates.

I only met his brother Cedric much later, when he was the inspector in "War Duties" where we were trained on what would happen in the event of a nuclear strike. It was a regional course so we met colleagues from all over. Out of the classroom, part of his stock-in-trade was to wind up gullible people with fictitious "inside info" he had gleaned from imaginary hush-hush civil defence sources. All codswallop but some were hooked.

I've been trying to remember Maurice Roberts' nickname, something like Silver Ghost (I think it was because he moved about so smoothly, he had the reputation of being able to slip into or out of a room without opening the door.) I first met him as a probationer on a local procedure course at Brotherton House when he was in CID. Candidates for the training department were invited to teach an occasional lesson as part of their own training and assessment. The subject for that particular lesson was poaching. He started: "I am to teach you about poaching. There is no poaching in Leeds." He went on to talk about something he found more interesting. The entire class scored zero for the questions on poaching in the test at the end of the weeek. It didn't stop him eventually getting into the Training Department because the next time I remember meeting him was on an inspectors' course at Wakefield when he was the chief inspector directing the course. When we all did our personal introductions I mentioned the poaching lesson which got a laugh from the rest of the class but he took it in good part. The last time I saw him was after he had retired and was working for some sort of security company and he came to Pudsey nick when I was approaching retirement. I had a laugh with him and he seemed to be his same old suave self but from what's been posted above, he must have died quite soon after that.

jma
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by jma »

volvojack

The badge above the number will probably have been the small reproduction of the shield in the City of Leeds Coat of Arms. A crown would be the rank badge of the "Chief Clerk" or more recently a superintendent who would not have a number. In my day, and that of most others who have posted, 139 was Geoff Peck. I think if you want to research anything from that far back, Police Headquarters in Wakefield would have to be your starting point. I don't know if they still have records of that type but unless things have changed due to spending cuts, they will be interested in old photos

User avatar
tilly
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon 11 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by tilly »

I must state i have never had any dealings with the police but i have enjoyed reading your posts.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.

Post Reply