JOHN CHARLES

Off-topic discussions, musings and chat
fevlad
PostsCOLON 455
JoinedCOLON Thu 07 Feb, 2008 5:47 am

Postby fevlad » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 9:41 am

I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?
I went down to the crossroads and got down on my knees
roundhegian
PostsCOLON 157
JoinedCOLON Mon 13 Aug, 2007 9:16 am

Postby roundhegian » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 1:05 pm

fevlad wrote:
I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?


The answer is very straightforward . In those pre-television days he was locally at least the George Best of his day .

There was an urban myth that he would play centre-forward in the first-half to score goals for Leeds and centre-half in the second half to stop the opposing team scoring .

He was the third or fourth football-league player to be signed by an Italian club for what in those days was a massive record-breaking fee .

Arguably he is the best player ever to have played for Leeds .
roundhegian
Phill_d
PostsCOLON 2638
JoinedCOLON Wed 21 Feb, 2007 6:22 am

Postby Phill_d » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 1:07 pm

It's the appreciation of the Leeds fans to a guy who give 100% effort for the team. I guess it's the adopted 'son of the city' appreciation that happens. Not unlike Eric Cantona, although that proved a very Judas slap in the face to thank the Leeds fans back. I think in general footballers, rock & sports stars of that era had far more personality about them & there was some great characters. I don't think this exists today. Mercenary footballers with money been there goal and golden boot!
A fool spends his entire life digging a hole for himself.
A wise man knows when it's time to stop!

(phill.d 2010)
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fevlad
PostsCOLON 455
JoinedCOLON Thu 07 Feb, 2008 5:47 am

Postby fevlad » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 1:08 pm

roundhegian wrote:
fevlad wrote:
I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?


The answer is very straightforward . In those pre-television days he was locally at least the George Best of his day .

There was an urban myth that he would play centre-forward in the first-half to score goals for Leeds and centre-half in the second half to stop the opposing team scoring .

He was the third or fourth football-league player to be signed by an Italian club for what in those days was a massive record-breaking fee .

Arguably he is the best player ever to have played for Leeds .


exactly, he left leeds in his prime: he went to Italy for fame and fortune. Leeds United wern't a very good team at the time anyway. Other people have contributed more to the sporting culture of the city than charles, and have remained in the city. The 1950s pre television?
    
I went down to the crossroads and got down on my knees

Trojan
PostsCOLON 1990
JoinedCOLON Sat 22 Dec, 2007 3:54 pm

Postby Trojan » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 1:15 pm

fevlad wrote:
roundhegian wrote:
fevlad wrote:
I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?


The answer is very straightforward . In those pre-television days he was locally at least the George Best of his day .

There was an urban myth that he would play centre-forward in the first-half to score goals for Leeds and centre-half in the second half to stop the opposing team scoring .

He was the third or fourth football-league player to be signed by an Italian club for what in those days was a massive record-breaking fee .

Arguably he is the best player ever to have played for Leeds .


exactly, he left leeds in his prime: he went to Italy for fame and fortune. Leeds United wern't a very good team at the time anyway. Other people have contributed more to the sporting culture of the city than charles, and have remained in the city. The 1950s pre television?
    

No he left Leeds because they needed the money - the main stand had burned down - the one opposite the Lowfields Road Stand, and Juventus made a big offer for Charles - £75K comes to mind - probably at today's values £2.5m. And to be fair to him he came back to Leeds Utd in the sixties and lived in the city after that. He kept the Commercial (bottom 'oil) in Churwell for a while. I've no problem with his being a hero in Leeds - so he was Welsh - so was |Lewis Jones and he's a hero in Leeds, so was Trevor Foster and he's a hero in Bradford. My first football boots from Stylo were "John Charles" boots with his name on the sole - as opposed to the "Stanley Matthews" boots other kids had!
Industria Omnia Vincit
amber
PostsCOLON 120
JoinedCOLON Thu 15 Nov, 2007 1:29 pm

Postby amber » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 1:33 pm

John lodged in Morley in the semis just below the Nelson Pub. When he broke into the first team he used to catch the 52 bus about 11 00 to the ground and if it was full as they were in those days almost everyone in the lower deck stood up to offer him a seat. A story goes that John scored a hat trick one day and the Chairman said bring your car round and I'll give you a tank of petrol. J C replied can't afford one I come on the bus.
fevlad
PostsCOLON 455
JoinedCOLON Thu 07 Feb, 2008 5:47 am

Postby fevlad » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 2:47 pm

Trojan wrote:
fevlad wrote:
roundhegian wrote:
fevlad wrote:
I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?


The answer is very straightforward . In those pre-television days he was locally at least the George Best of his day .

There was an urban myth that he would play centre-forward in the first-half to score goals for Leeds and centre-half in the second half to stop the opposing team scoring .

He was the third or fourth football-league player to be signed by an Italian club for what in those days was a massive record-breaking fee .

Arguably he is the best player ever to have played for Leeds .


exactly, he left leeds in his prime: he went to Italy for fame and fortune. Leeds United wern't a very good team at the time anyway. Other people have contributed more to the sporting culture of the city than charles, and have remained in the city. The 1950s pre television?
    

No he left Leeds because they needed the money - the main stand had burned down - the one opposite the Lowfields Road Stand, and Juventus made a big offer for Charles - £75K comes to mind - probably at today's values £2.5m. And to be fair to him he came back to Leeds Utd in the sixties and lived in the city after that. He kept the Commercial (bottom 'oil) in Churwell for a while. I've no problem with his being a hero in Leeds - so he was Welsh - so was |Lewis Jones and he's a hero in Leeds, so was Trevor Foster and he's a hero in Bradford. My first football boots from Stylo were "John Charles" boots with his name on the sole - as opposed to the "Stanley Matthews" boots other kids had!

I don't have a problem with him being welsh either
I don't have a problem with him at all in fact, or even with him being a soccer player-at least it hat dignity in those days.
I'm just curious as to how he struck a chord with people, as did Billy Bremner, but others didn't jack Charlton won a world cup winners medal for instance.

I had a pair of stanley mathews 'continentals'!
I went down to the crossroads and got down on my knees
Trojan
PostsCOLON 1990
JoinedCOLON Sat 22 Dec, 2007 3:54 pm

Postby Trojan » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 3:00 pm

I don't have a problem with him being welsh either
I don't have a problem with him at all in fact, or even with him being a soccer player-at least it hat dignity in those days.
I'm just curious as to how he struck a chord with people, as did Billy Bremner, but others didn't jack Charlton won a world cup winners medal for instance.

I had a pair of stanley mathews 'continentals'!

Jack Charlton is the only footballer, for that matter the only famous person that I've seen in "real life" The first time he was in Morley Working Mens Club (imagine that today) just after the he came back from the 1970 World Cup in Mexico - he was sat there his deep tan contrasting with his blond hair (he had hair in those days) having a drink and a smoke, the next time was at Leeds Bradford Airport, he was on the same Dublin flight as me, checking in all his fishing gear. The next time was at Kings Cross Station, we were going into the buffet and could hear this loud Geordie voice, and there he was sat in the middle of the buffet, surrounded by suitcases yelling into a mobile phone. No edge on him at all Big Jack.
Industria Omnia Vincit

roundhegian
PostsCOLON 157
JoinedCOLON Mon 13 Aug, 2007 9:16 am

Postby roundhegian » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 5:07 pm

fevlad wrote:
roundhegian wrote:
fevlad wrote:
I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?


The answer is very straightforward . In those pre-television days he was locally at least the George Best of his day .

There was an urban myth that he would play centre-forward in the first-half to score goals for Leeds and centre-half in the second half to stop the opposing team scoring .

He was the third or fourth football-league player to be signed by an Italian club for what in those days was a massive record-breaking fee .

Arguably he is the best player ever to have played for Leeds .


exactly, he left leeds in his prime: he went to Italy for fame and fortune. Leeds United wern't a very good team at the time anyway. Other people have contributed more to the sporting culture of the city than charles, and have remained in the city. The 1950s pre television?
    


The early 1950s were pre-television fopr most of us . At the time of the Coronation in 1953 only one house in the terraced street in which I lived had a television .
roundhegian
roundhegian
PostsCOLON 157
JoinedCOLON Mon 13 Aug, 2007 9:16 am

Postby roundhegian » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 5:08 pm

fevlad wrote:
roundhegian wrote:
fevlad wrote:
I don't have a problem with Charles, and his fame coincided with my own child hood so I have good meories of him. he even had a hit record with Ernie Ford's '16 tons', and no doubt he was a fine footballer.
However, I've never quite understood his place in the Leeds pantheon of sporting heroes. Any ideas?


The answer is very straightforward . In those pre-television days he was locally at least the George Best of his day .

There was an urban myth that he would play centre-forward in the first-half to score goals for Leeds and centre-half in the second half to stop the opposing team scoring .

He was the third or fourth football-league player to be signed by an Italian club for what in those days was a massive record-breaking fee .

Arguably he is the best player ever to have played for Leeds .


exactly, he left leeds in his prime: he went to Italy for fame and fortune. Leeds United wern't a very good team at the time anyway. Other people have contributed more to the sporting culture of the city than charles, and have remained in the city. The 1950s pre television?
    


The early 1950s were pre-television fopr most of us . At the time of the Coronation in 1953 only one house in the terraced street in which I lived had a television .
roundhegian

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