True Identity of a fallen soldier in the Great War Part 2

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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

So i had deduced that the brother that died in the First World War must have been Robert.I knew from the Army Service record of brother James that Robert had been in the army in August 1915 (date of James' recruitment) and was specifically in the 2nd Battalion Duke of Wellingtons (West Riding) Regiment.With this i resumed my search of the Military records looking for anything to do with Robert.There was nothing for anyone with the surname Hoolahan, forename Robert nor with the surname spelt as Hoolan in military records, but how could this be?James Hoolans service record clearly showed that Robert was in the army on or before August 1915.I then followed another lead that my aunt had told me about.She said that her mother had paid to have her bothers name inscribed on the war memorial in St Patricks Church on York Road.St Pats had been closed to the public for some years and is now in the ownership of the West Yorkshire Playhouse who use teh church as a prop store.I wrote to the Playhouse to ask if i could gain access and look at the memorial.Access was granted and one early morning i entered the church with the caretaker.Very weird experience, a bit dusty and filled with stage props both large and small, one being a car!!The memorial was on the north side of the church, poorly lit, but quite clearly the most intersting war memorial i have yet seen in a church.The centre of this stone memorial was a large frieze depicting Jesus stood over an injured but clearly dying soldier laid on the ground.On either side of the frieze were panels with names inscribed on them.On the left bottom panel was the name "Hoolan Robert"
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Post by cnosni »

Inscription on St Patricks War memorial
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The memorials style and content of its illustrations made it quite clear that it was specifically devoted to First World War but just to be sure i researched some of the other names recorded before and after the instance of Robert on the memorial,and managed to identify a few of the uncommon names as having died in the First World War.This inscription confirmed that my Great Uncle had indeed died in the First World War, but that he was missing from any existing military records.So i went back to the drawinboard, but as i now had proof that he had died i went to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.The website contains the database of all those personnel who have been killed or died whilst on active duty in borth world wars and after.The database is know as "The Debt of Honour"and is easily searchable.However a search for Robert Hoolan/ Hoolahan returned nothing.So i decided i would do a wildcard search, replacing a letter here and there to see if perhaps there was a casualty who was my great uncle with a slightly mispelt name which could be a result of misreading or mistranscription, after all the three Hoolahan siblings and their Leeds born relatives couldnt pronounce the surname of Hoolahan correctly so perhaps someone hearing this mispronunciation may make a further mistake.I tried many connotations and came up with nothing with the exception of one.This was a Private 3/10645 R Hoonan, killed 1st July 1916 and buried at Euston Cemetery near Colincamps, France.This was intersting so i returned to the Ancestry military records to see what i could find about this soldier.The Ancestry online database contains all of what remains of the army service and pension records for soldiers of teh Firts World War.Unfortuntely 60% of these records were destroyed in a blaze in 1940 caused by German bombing.There was no such service record for R Hoonan, there was however another record.This record was an index card for Medal Rolls of the First World War, these Medal Rolls themselves containing details of what medals awarded to a particular soldier on additionally what battalion of a regiment they were in.
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Post by cnosni »

This Medal Card Index, which is not the roll itself, showed that Private R Hoonan's forename was Robert.It also showed that he was in the West Riding Regiment (Duke of Wellington's), that he was killed in action ( K in A) and that he had gone on active overseas service on 15th April 1915.So this was the same regiment and roughly at the same as Robert Hoolan, but could he be in the same battalion in that regiment, and if so could it be just coinidence?The card does not tell you this, and the rolls are on microfilm at the National Archives in Kew.However there are otherr records for dead soldiers online i could check to find the battalion tis soldier was in.    
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kango
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Post by kango »

Silly question Chris, but does your relatives service number match that of private Hoonan's?Just a thought.

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Post by cnosni »

kango wrote: Silly question Chris, but does your relatives service number match that of private Hoonan's?Just a thought. Well thats the problem Kango, there are no military records at all that have the name of Robert Hoolan/ Hoolahan on them.Though his brother James' army service record exists (see part 1) it is one of the few remaining 1st World War Army service records that still exist.In 1940, during an air raid, 60% of those records were destroyed in a fire which broke out in the building in which they were housed.The remnnats are known as the "Burnt Records", however the Medal Roll Index Cards (example of such a card in preceeding post), and the Medal Rolls to which they refer still exist almost in their entirety, so if Robert Hoolan WAS in the army, as his brother James record says he was and his apppearance on the war memorial in Sy Pats suggests he was killed then he should appear in the Medal Rolls and the index cards that help you identify where the roll for a particular soldier is located.The next part will come soon.    
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Stpats
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Re: True Identity of a fallen soldier in the Great War Part

Post by Stpats »

Hello cnosni.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but have just registered on the forum after coming across your post on Google.

It's a long shot but I wonder if you have a photograph of the entire war memorial from the old St Pats Church ?

I'm from East Leeds and my family was originally from Ireland living on or around the Bank, Richmond Hill and Burmantofts areas. My grandfather was baptised and married in St Pats so I should imagine it was my families local church. My hobby is family history and I've already researched several ancestors who fought or were killed during the Great War so I think some of them might be named on the memorial. I've walked around the old church a couple of times to see if there was anyone there who might let me in but it always seems deserted, I wasn't even certain the memorial even remained as I've never seen a photo of even a part of it until I came across your post.

If you don't have a photo I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction on who to contact at the WY Playhouse to arrange access to the church.

Cheers,

Stpats. (Mick)

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Re: True Identity of a fallen soldier in the Great War Part

Post by cnosni »

Stpats wrote:Hello cnosni.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but have just registered on the forum after coming across your post on Google.

It's a long shot but I wonder if you have a photograph of the entire war memorial from the old St Pats Church ?

I'm from East Leeds and my family was originally from Ireland living on or around the Bank, Richmond Hill and Burmantofts areas. My grandfather was baptised and married in St Pats so I should imagine it was my families local church. My hobby is family history and I've already researched several ancestors who fought or were killed during the Great War so I think some of them might be named on the memorial. I've walked around the old church a couple of times to see if there was anyone there who might let me in but it always seems deserted, I wasn't even certain the memorial even remained as I've never seen a photo of even a part of it until I came across your post.

If you don't have a photo I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction on who to contact at the WY Playhouse to arrange access to the church.

Cheers,

Stpats. (Mick)
Hello Mick

Im afraid i dont have a picture of the whole memorial,its quite large im afraid.

The names were inscribed on the memorial only after relatives had paid for their fallen relations names to be included, so if your relatives were unable to afford or didnt manage to get around to doing so then those names you are interested in wont necessarily appear on the memorial.

I do know that there is a transcript of the names held at the new St Pats on Torre Road. The names are read out every Rememberance Sunday so perhaps contacting the new church may yield the names you are looking for.

I cant remember whom i contacted at the Playhouse but all i did was ring reception and they put me through to the correct person.
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Stpats
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Re: True Identity of a fallen soldier in the Great War Part

Post by Stpats »

Hello cnosni.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll try ringing the Playhouse and see if I can get in.

Thanks again,

Mick.

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Re: True Identity of a fallen soldier in the Great War Part

Post by cnosni »

Let me know how you went on
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