St Margaret's Church Horsforth in the 1700s

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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Sun 16 Jun, 2013 11:30 pm

barlickgirl wrote:
jonleeds wrote:
Hi Barlickgirl, I have a wonderful view of St Margarets church from my lounge window, as Jogon says below its quite a landmark being located on a high ridge above the river Aire overlooking lower Airedale in the Yorkshire Dales (although not part of the national park of course!).

Here is a nice sunset photo I took of St Margarets a few years ago:




I can only imagine your family members might have been baptised in different churches because they were the churches local to where they lived, or different family member may have belonged to different congregations or different denominations etc. In Horsforth besides the usual church of England and Catholic church there are a number of non-conformist churches including the Methodist church.

I'd imagine that your family members back in the 17th century that moved to the USA were looking for a better life with more religious freedom and your family who moved to Australia were sent there because they were criminals! Heh heh heh!    


Hi Jonleeds,

That's a really beautiful photo, thank you for posting it! Just to clarify my USA side of the family did move to the USA in search of a better life, but only in the late 1800s. The Australian side only in the late 1900s as "10 pound poms"!!!

I realised on re-reading I needed to restate my question so it's much clearer. This is an example of what we keep finding with our Mann family line:

From the Parish records:

Abraham Mann (Father Abraham Mann) was baptised 19 May 1725 at Horsforth St mary’s. Then there is a duplicate listing that says Abraham Mann (Father Abraham Mann) was baptised 19 May 1725 at Leeds St Peter Yorkshire England.

The same goes for his burial:

Abraham Mann 19 Aug 1755 Horsforth St Margaret Yorkshire England

Abraham Mann 19 Aug 1755 Leeds, St Peter Yorkshire England

This duplication continues for all his siblings as well. Does anyone know why that would be?

Regards,
Jill



Hello barlickgirl

Are the duplicate events on Ancestry as i have looked at Ancestry and i can see the duplicate events you mentioned.

Unfortunately the records from the West Yorkshire Archives that have been transcribed by Ancestry to their (Ancestry's) database "West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812" by English study students in India.

They are not familiar with placenames in England,the same as we are not with places in India.

The record is definitely a Leeds record,specifically Hunslet Chapel.

The transcribers have transcribed the records correctly (in respect of names and date) but they have been attributed one example of the record to the wrong church.

Follow (or copy and paste) this link for a page of marriages supposedly,according to Ancestry,taking place at Horsforth St Margraret

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2256/32355_249506-01035/10410153?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=32355_249506-01085_10

You will notice that the places of abode of the people on this page (page 7 0f 9) is Leeds,Beeston and Hunslet.

Clearly these people are not living in Horsforth or its mother parish of Guiseley.

This is a common error on Ancestry im afraid,all too common,where records are getting transcribed but attributed to the wrong church or chapel.

To prove the point if you look at the bottom of the page (page 7 of 9) on the link you will see the reference number P44/1/1.

Go back to page 4 of 9 (by using the arrow buttons next to the page number) and you will see at the top of the page that the records are for burials at Horsforth,but the reference number at the bottom of this page is P43/1,indicating that its a completely different set of records.

So im afraid you will have to be very careful indeed and not take what you see on Ancestry at face value,be prepared to question what they have come up with.

Further confusion with this record is that it is duplicated actually in the original records themselves,hence the transcribers need to attribute one of the duplications to another church.

Firstly the baptism was recorded at the chapel in Hunslet as can be seen here

Then the record was was duplicated into the register of the mother church of the parish,which is St Peters in Leeds,along with the records at the other satelite chapels attached to St Peters (you will notice that on the opposite page that there are records for St Johns near the Merrion Centre).
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2256/32355_249439-00110/9078041?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

This is the norm for all Parish churches and their chapels ( the original chapels records duplicated in the mother parish church records,usually for the purpose of making up the Bishops Transcripts)and accounts for two records,for the same date and same person written in different hand and on completely different pages.
Don't get me started!!
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barlickgirl
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Postby barlickgirl » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 11:54 am

Cnosni,

Thank you so much for answering my query, so comprehensively. I had certainly noticed a difference in the quality of Ancestry records lately, but didn't quite realise the extent of the errors. I would be lost without it though, being so far away.

I will certainly the records check more closely now though.

Cheers,
Jill
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Steve Jones
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Postby Steve Jones » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 7:11 pm

I have just sent you a zip file barlickgirl containing registers for the Hunslet chapel in the 18th century which may be of use.it is searchable using Adobe Reader.
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barlickgirl
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Postby barlickgirl » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:27 pm

Steve Jones wrote:
I have just sent you a zip file barlickgirl containing registers for the Hunslet chapel in the 18th century which may be of use.it is searchable using Adobe Reader.


Thanks so much Steve Jones that will be really useful. I have a couple of family line that came from that area.


Jill Ross

barlickgirl
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Postby barlickgirl » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:30 pm

Steve Jones wrote:
It is a late church.on the flat caps and bonnets DVD for the middle part of the West Riding is a History of the Parish of Guiseley which included Horsforth.the last chapter on Horsforth mentions the building of various churches as the town expanded.
I have also having just read it discovered for the first time the wonderful tale of Anna Page the female bearded(!) poacher gang leader of Horsforth!
Incidentally this same DVD has copies of all the parish registers of Leeds Parish church for the 17th and 18th centuries so might be useful if you don't already have copies.
see:
www.flatcapsandbonnets.com for details. very cheap DVD's and lots of good stuff.


Sounds like a must read! I really want someone like Anna Page in my family tree, but all a bit staid so far I'm afraid,
Jill Ross
barlickgirl
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Postby barlickgirl » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:32 pm

johnnyg wrote:
Flickr carries a number of photos of St Margaret's, including John from above. The most interesting to you may be the photo of the Centenary brochure suggesting the church dates from 1833. The owner of the photo may be able to tell you more.
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=st%20margaret%20horsforth


Thanks johnnyg looks like a very pretty place.
Jill Ross
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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 2:54 pm

barlickgirl wrote:
Steve Jones wrote:
It is a late church.on the flat caps and bonnets DVD for the middle part of the West Riding is a History of the Parish of Guiseley which included Horsforth.the last chapter on Horsforth mentions the building of various churches as the town expanded.
I have also having just read it discovered for the first time the wonderful tale of Anna Page the female bearded(!) poacher gang leader of Horsforth!
Incidentally this same DVD has copies of all the parish registers of Leeds Parish church for the 17th and 18th centuries so might be useful if you don't already have copies.
see:
www.flatcapsandbonnets.com for details. very cheap DVD's and lots of good stuff.


Sounds like a must read! I really want someone like Anna Page in my family tree, but all a bit staid so far I'm afraid,

Unfortunately i believe ,subject to further research,that she is a member of my family of Pages who lived in Horsforth/Rawdon.

Its likely she is a descendant of a Jeremiah Page who moved to teh area some generations earlier.
Don't get me started!!
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Steve Jones
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Postby Steve Jones » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 8:40 pm

Unfortunately i believe ,subject to further research,that she is a member of my family of Pages who lived in Horsforth/Rawdon.

Its likely she is a descendant of a Jeremiah Page who moved to teh area some generations earlier.

I can believe that Chris<LOL>. Out of interest because the book says she was buried without ceremony in a secluded corner of the churchyard because of the dislike of her, is the grave still there?

I only got that she died in Leeds Steve
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barlickgirl
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Postby barlickgirl » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 10:09 pm

Poor Anna! Adds some interesting family blood to your tree! Did dhe have any children?
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Steve Jones
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Postby Steve Jones » Wed 19 Jun, 2013 1:19 pm

do you want me to email you a copy of the book Chris?
if you already have the flatcapsandbonets DVd for mid West Riding it is on there.
Steve Jones
I don't know everything, I just like to give that impression!

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