Vanishing Breweries

Old, disused, forgotten and converted pubs
Chrism
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Postby Chrism » Sat 27 Apr, 2013 12:43 pm

Musgrave & Sagar beer label
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Sit thissen dahn an' tell us abaht it.

BJF
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JoinedCOLON Wed 29 Jul, 2009 2:55 pm

Postby BJF » Sun 28 Apr, 2013 6:54 pm

From the Chemic
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The Parksider
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Postby The Parksider » Mon 29 Apr, 2013 11:50 pm

BJF wrote:
From the Chemic


Thats a real collectors item!
Bruno
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JoinedCOLON Fri 29 Jul, 2011 9:54 am

Postby Bruno » Tue 30 Apr, 2013 1:23 pm

I worked briefly as a barman at the Town Hall Tavern in 1981, possibly 1982.

I'm not sure if it was still a Musgrave and Sagar house then, although the signage was still everywhere. I remember the draught beer being Tetley's (including Imperial and Mild) pulled using Autovac (spelling?) pumps, that is, the pumps that sucked the overflowed beer back out of the drip tray and round into the glass again. The licencee at the time was Frank Molloy.
The older I get, the better I was.

Jogon
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JoinedCOLON Wed 21 Dec, 2011 1:28 pm

Postby Jogon » Tue 30 Apr, 2013 2:50 pm

Bruno
The big (ex-boxer looking) guy who used to be the boilerman at Meanwood Baths drank in there late 70's.

Musgrave & Sagar had a building down the hill oppo Park Lane college.

[sorry
not a vanishing brewery but]
out of Leeds last weekend I had a few pints of Robinsons Dizzy Blonde excellent light hoppy
http://www.robinsonsbrewery.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/11/s/dizzy-blonde/category/22/    
York Road Lad
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Postby York Road Lad » Wed 01 May, 2013 2:31 am

Bruno wrote:
I worked briefly as a barman at the Town Hall Tavern in 1981, possibly 1982.

I'm not sure if it was still a Musgrave and Sagar house then, although the signage was still everywhere. I remember the draught beer being Tetley's (including Imperial and Mild) pulled using Autovac (spelling?) pumps, that is, the pumps that sucked the overflowed beer back out of the drip tray and round into the glass again. The licencee at the time was Frank Molloy.



Musgrave and Sagar had stopped brewing many years prior to that, but still owned The Town Hall Tavern, The Nag's Head and The Unicorn. Had Kathleen Moran left by then? I remember her joining my friends and myself in the 'Snug' one evening around then (or possibly late 70's) to sing 'Faith of Our Fathers'.

I also remember the autovac system well - and fought to keep it in Leeds. I was a member of the Environmental Health Committee at the time the Council chose to ban autovacs. I had a personal meeting with the Chief Environmental Officer over the issue and raised it in Council several times. The powers that be were obsessed with autovacs being a health risk due to the fact that beer passed over the glass and possibly the bar staff's hands before re-entering the beer line. They were unable to cite any evidence to support their case, but since when has the nanny state needed that? A few places did ignore the council though - and kept the system. As far as I know, no prosecutions resulted. The benefit of the system is that, particularly with Tetley's, they produce a deliciously tight and creamy head that more modern 'agitators' cannot replicate. I remember arguing with the Health Committee Chair across the Council Chamber about the quality of head produced by 'autovacs'. I wonder how many pints of Tetleys she had supped? - I think I was a much more accomplished expert!

I suppose I should admit, though, that as a toddler I sometimes floated my toy boats in the drip tray at 'The Prince Arthur' on Roundhay Road. My mother was a barmaid there and, if she was needed to cover a dinnertime session, was allowed to take me with her. I wonder what the health people would have made of that?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Cardiarms
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Postby Cardiarms » Wed 01 May, 2013 8:47 am

I seem to remember another concern was that at the time customers didn't necessarily get a fresh glass and whatever kack was on their hands was also being flushed through the autovac. No idea if this was a real concern or not.
Bruno
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Postby Bruno » Wed 01 May, 2013 11:33 am

York Road Lad wrote:

Musgrave and Sagar had stopped brewing many years prior to that, but still owned The Town Hall Tavern, The Nag's Head and The Unicorn. Had Kathleen Moran left by then?

The powers that be were obsessed with autovacs being a health risk due to the fact that beer passed over the glass and possibly the bar staff's hands before re-entering the beer line.



Sorry York Road Lad, I don't recall Kathleen Moran - I'm assuming she was a barmaid?

The autovac pump hygiene fears were valid to an extent in my view - by definition, some beer would flow over the lip of the glass, down the sides, off the bottom of the glass and possibly over the server's fingers, to be recycled via the drip trough. Not such a problem if a clean glass was used every time, but some drinkers insisted on using the same glass, in fact quite a few of the regulars had their own personalised glasses kept behind the bar in the Town Hall Tavern. So you could be refilling a glass that had saliva on the lip, cigarette ash on the bottom and unwashed fingers holding it, and you would be rinsing all this lot through the system and back into that or subsequent glasses with the beer itself!

Another practice which I remember (which I had been told about previously but didn't believe until I was asked to do it myself) was to go around the pub after closing time with a stainless steel bucket, collecting all the remnants of pints of real ale, which would then be taken to the cellar and added to a fairly full barrel. This was in the days of last orders and strict closing times, when the last orders bell often led to punters doubling or even trebling their order, then staggering back to their tables with two or three pints which they were unable to consume within the allocated ten minutes drinking-up time.

They can't do that nowadays with keg beers, but who knows if it still goes on with beer from the wood?

By the way, I've been racking my brains (forgive the brewing pun) to remember the other beer which the THT used to sell on draught alongside Tetley's: it was Castle Eden.
The older I get, the better I was.

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uncle mick
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Postby uncle mick » Wed 01 May, 2013 11:48 am

[quotenick="Bruno"].

They can't do that nowadays with keg beers, but who knows if it still goes on with beer from the wood?

Oh yes they can Regular Smiley
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/smartlead/view/562919/4/KEG-RETURNER
biofichompinc
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Postby biofichompinc » Wed 01 May, 2013 12:49 pm

Bruno wrote:
York Road Lad wrote:

...... Had Kathleen Moran left by then?
......

Sorry York Road Lad, I don't recall Kathleen Moran - I'm assuming she was a barmaid?
....

In as much as she used to serve beer from behind the bar, yes. I suppose Kathleen Moran was a barmaid. But she was also the licensee throughout the seventies, and probably earlier. All the time that I frequented the hallowed portals of the 'real' THT, Kathleen Moran was the name above that door.
Someone longer in the tooth than me should be able to say when Kathleen first graced the place. She was a formidable lady. And lovely with it.
And yes, the beer (Tetley's bitter - wouldn't touch it these days) was fabulous whatever the methodology used to get it into your glass.

    

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