The Old Lion & Lamb in Seacroft

minksymoo · Post by **minksymoo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 12:12 am

We've lived in The Old Lamb since May this year and are currently renovating it to try and get it back to a more original style of decor....when we were sold the house we were told it was built circa 1881 but when we got into the roof we found the date 1846 scratched into the chimney brest.We were wondering if anyone knew any more about The Old Lamb?We know it closed as a pub in the 50's, was then a storehouse for the brewery and the former owners then ran it as a B&B for many years but we don't seem able to find mention of it back in 1881 and certainly not in 1846.We're discovering old colours and what looks like printed wall paper as we strip back the years and we have some great old photos of the exterior that we are going to scan for Leodis....but actual information on the place is scant.

minksymoo · Post by **minksymoo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 12:21 am

...also keep trying to attach a pic of the date we found but no matter how small I make it it doesn't want to attach : (

minksymoo · Post by **minksymoo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 12:26 am

...ah, wait for approval no? Sorry whoever has to check that, must have tried uploading 10 times.Ha!

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 12:39 am

Much easier to post your picture to Flickr etc... then just post a link to it.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 5:28 am

minksymoo wrote: We've lived in The Old Lamb since May this year and are currently renovating it to try and get it back to a more original style of decor....when we were sold the house we were told it was built circa 1881 but when we got into the roof we found the date 1846 scratched into the chimney brest.We were wondering if anyone knew any more about The Old Lamb?We know it closed as a pub in the 50's, was then a storehouse for the brewery and the former owners then ran it as a B&B for many years but we don't seem able to find mention of it back in 1881 and certainly not in 1846.We're discovering old colours and what looks like printed wall paper as we strip back the years and we have some great old photos of the exterior that we are going to scan for Leodis....but actual information on the place is scant. I am assuming the Old Lamb was previously known as The Lion and Lamb (not to be confused with The Lion and Lamb which was demolished a few years ago)1851 Census - Mary Sowden (Widow) Innkeeper 1861 Census - "1871 Census - Henry Sowden Innkeeper who was Mary's son1881 Census - Isabella Sowden Innkeeper who was Henry's widow1891 Census - "1911 Census - George DennellIn the 1841 Census there is a entry for Thomas Sowden who was Mary's husband .Innkeeper at Broom Hills Farm, York RoadHope this is of some help

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 9:34 am

minksymoo wrote: ...ah, wait for approval no? Sorry whoever has to check that, must have tried uploading 10 times.Ha! This thread answers most of the common issues -http://www.secretleeds.co.uk/forum/Mess ... dID=2159If you get the error message at the end, use the back button and then refresh, if all else is well the picture should be there. By the way it's correctly known as The Lion and Lamb, the former owners contracted the name to the less correct Lamb Guest House.

liits · Post by **liits** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 10:30 am

It didn't come within the [Leeds] city boundary until they were extended in the early part of last century. Prior to that, it was in the Tadcaster Licensing District. It came under the control of the Leeds Licensing Justices on 9th November 1912 when the Licensee was George Dennell.To expand upon the info provided by Uncle-Mick,According to the various Trade Directories [notoriously wrong!], the License transferred from Henry Sowden [born about 1825, died 31/08/1879] to Ann Sowden sometime between September 1876 and September 1881. This is a bit peculiar because his daughter, Annie Elizabeth Sowden wasn’t born until 1875 so she would have been a bit on the young side.The 1881 census records Isabella Sowden nee Lodge [born about 1835, died 11/02/1928] as the “Innkeeper” [as does the 1891 census]. The 1901 census shows her living in Barwick in Elmet where she is described as a “Retired publican”.According to the Trade Directories, Isabella became the Licensee sometime between 1888 and 1892. Very doubtful indeed! She would probably have succeeded the License when Henry died in 1879.The 1901 Census has George Dennell as the Innkeeper. George had previously been the Licensee of the Malcolm Arms, Green Lane, Armley which he left on 11th August 1899 so would have taken on the Lion & Lamb some time after that. As previously stated, the premises didn’t come within the jurisdiction of the City of Leeds Justices until 1912 so records prior to that time can be a bit sketchy.Anyway, George held the License until 18th January 1929 when it transferred to Rowland Stuart McNeil. He held it until 21st April 1933 when it transferred to Edwin Augustus Marrison. It transferred to his widow, who would be the last Licensee, Annie Marrison on 8th April 1949.Aside from the various Licensees of the premises, up until his death sometime in 1930/31, the property was owed by Darcy Bruce Wilson who lived at Seacroft Hall [which is discussed on other threads on Secret Leeds]. By profession he was a barrister but he was also a Justice of the Peace and one of the Licensing Justices so not sure that there wasn’t something of a conflict of interests. Although there were quite a few Licensing Justices making up the Licensing Panel, his name, above all others, appears the most often when it comes to handing out fines to licensees [Licensees from the L&L having only been prosecuted twice; George Dennell being the culprit on both occasions, firstly on 30th April 1914 for being drunk – for which the charge was dismissed and then again on the 29th February 1916 under the Control Orders, when he was fined £5 [or one month imprisonment].The Executors of DB Wilson’s will held the premises until September 1931 when it was sold to John Davenport & Sons of Birmingham. Prior to that, the pub had been free of tie for its beer.Davenports applied [on 9th March 1939] for a grant of the removal of the License to premises to be built on the adjacent plot of land. This plan [and it was on plans] was granted and confirmed the following month. Obviously the war intervened and the new premises were not built until after the war, and the grant was renewed by the Justices in March 1956. It opened for business on the 5th September 1956 under its new name, the Seacroft Hotel.

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 10:41 am

liits wrote: It didn't come within the [Leeds] city boundary until they were extended in the early part of last century. Prior to that, it was in the Tadcaster Licensing District. It came under the control of the Leeds Licensing Justices on 9th November 1912 when the Licensee was George Dennell.To expand upon the info provided by Uncle-Mick,According to the various Trade Directories [notoriously wrong!], the License transferred from Henry Sowden [born about 1825, died 31/08/1879] to Ann Sowden sometime between September 1876 and September 1881. This is a bit peculiar because his daughter, Annie Elizabeth Sowden wasn’t born until 1875 so she would have been a bit on the young side.The 1881 census records Isabella Sowden nee Lodge [born about 1835, died 11/02/1928] as the “Innkeeper” [as does the 1891 census]. The 1901 census shows her living in Barwick in Elmet where she is described as a “Retired publican”.According to the Trade Directories, Isabella became the Licensee sometime between 1888 and 1892. Very doubtful indeed! She would probably have succeeded the License when Henry died in 1879.The 1901 Census has George Dennell as the Innkeeper. George had previously been the Licensee of the Malcolm Arms, Green Lane, Armley which he left on 11th August 1899 so would have taken on the Lion & Lamb some time after that. As previously stated, the premises didn’t come within the jurisdiction of the City of Leeds Justices until 1912 so records prior to that time can be a bit sketchy.Anyway, George held the License until 18th January 1929 when it transferred to Rowland Stuart McNeil. He held it until 21st April 1933 when it transferred to Edwin Augustus Marrison. It transferred to his widow, who would be the last Licensee, Annie Marrison on 8th April 1949.Aside from the various Licensees of the premises, up until his death sometime in 1930/31, the property was owed by Darcy Bruce Wilson who lived at Seacroft Hall [which is discussed on other threads on Secret Leeds]. By profession he was a barrister but he was also a Justice of the Peace and one of the Licensing Justices so not sure that there wasn’t something of a conflict of interests. Although there were quite a few Licensing Justices making up the Licensing Panel, his name, above all others, appears the most often when it comes to handing out fines to licensees [Licensees from the L&L having only been prosecuted twice; George Dennell being the culprit on both occasions, firstly on 30th April 1914 for being drunk – for which the charge was dismissed and then again on the 29th February 1916 under the Control Orders, when he was fined £5 [or one month imprisonment].The Executors of DB Wilson’s will held the premises until September 1931 when it was sold to John Davenport & Sons of Birmingham. Prior to that, the pub had been free of tie for its beer.Davenports applied [on 9th March 1939] for a grant of the removal of the License to premises to be built on the adjacent plot of land. This plan [and it was on plans] was granted and confirmed the following month. Obviously the war intervened and the new premises were not built until after the war, and the grant was renewed by the Justices in March 1956. It opened for business on the 5th September 1956 under its new name, the Seacroft Hotel. The Agents handling the sale gave the wrong date of building, as you clearly illustrate here liits. The Sowdens were also connected to my old family in those early days and doubtless Mrs. C. will have some more info about them.Following its demise as a public house, it was as we have mentioned somewhere elde on here, home to the Spences, George uding the prmises for his wrought iron business, and evidence of that persists, before it was became a guest house.Wasn't The Seacrfot on the adjacent site of Park Farm also known as the New Lion & Lamb at one point. It bit the dust some time ago and is now home to an Aldi store.

minksymoo · Post by **minksymoo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 11:18 am

This is great, thank you so much. We are going to compile this information and do a history sheet for the house to hang in the hallway. We have the original Bill of Sale from when Darcy Willson sold the place and will scan that along with all the old photos we were given when we moved in by the former owners.Here's a flikr set I've created this morning to show what we've been doing and some of the things we've found : )Thank you guys xxxhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/minksymoo/sets/72157628509471647/

liits · Post by **liits** » Wed 21 Dec, 2011 11:22 am

I think the name change from The Seacroft to the [new] Lion & Lamb is covered on the pubs thread. I can't find the particular post but I seem to think that the name change happened when Davenports pulled out and Mansfields took over some time around 1980 / 81. The change of name coincided with an extensive refurbishment. I recall going in with my old man a few days after it had reopened. While the refurb looked good, the beer [electric beer in oversize glasses] was vile. I never went back and I don’t think the old fella did either.