Sparrow Park

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 2:02 pm

You may know Sparrow Park as the fenced off triangle of trees on the bend on Cardigan Road. It's in a bit of a state and the local residents asked the council to do something. They were very positive and apologetic about it falling off their radar. Then they found that they had no evidence that they actually owned it. Moves are afoot to tidy it up and possibly try a compulsory purchase off the unkown owners.The history is that the triangle of land was left over when the Botanical Gardens were sold off and developed (by Marshall) developed and the Cardigan estate was broken up in 1888, when Cardigan road was laid out to provide access.Chasing up the histroy has been fascinating but a dead end. Does anybody on Secret Leeds know more or have any remiscences?http://g.co/maps/cexreCheers

Leeds Hippo · Post by **Leeds Hippo** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 2:32 pm

This raises an interesting question about land ownership (in my mind). If no one owns the land can I claim it (for instance if I occupy the land for a time). On the other hand if someone has the "Freehold" does that represent true "ownership". Does the Queen not "own" all the land in England - and if she does - should she not clear up the mess!It's interesting on my house title deed it says I have Freehold but then goes on to say what I can't do with "my" property. Like run a business from it or mine for coal etc.There must be loads of pieces of land in England with no "official" owner so there must be scope for a land grab of sorts.

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 2:47 pm

You can claim adverse possesion if you can provide documentary evidence that you have fenced and regulalry maintained the land for ten years without the owner claiming it back. Unfortunately we have lots of anecdotal evidence of it being used but nothing to prove it's been maintained.

Tasa · Post by **Tasa** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 3:30 pm

Cardiarms wrote: You can claim adverse possesion if you can provide documentary evidence that you have fenced and regulalry maintained the land for ten years without the owner claiming it back. Unfortunately we have lots of anecdotal evidence of it being used but nothing to prove it's been maintained. For years there was a small plaque on the wall at the junction of Cardigan Road and the extension of Spring Road to say that the area was being restored as a project by the South Headingley Community Association (I think), but I never saw anything actually happen. I assume this was because of the dispute over ownership, and the plaque was removed last year.

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 3:57 pm

They renovated some of the railings and tidied up once about 20 years ago. Harold Best Cllr and MP was involved in that one. The plaque fell off and was lost. Unfortunately the then committee disolved before the advent of the internet and records are scanty. Back then everyone assumed it was council property, including the council. I think SHCA has been reconstituted since then.

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 4:27 pm

Leeds Hippo wrote: This raises an interesting question about land ownership (in my mind). If no one owns the land can I claim it (for instance if I occupy the land for a time). On the other hand if someone has the "Freehold" does that represent true "ownership". Does the Queen not "own" all the land in England - and if she does - should she not clear up the mess!It's interesting on my house title deed it says I have Freehold but then goes on to say what I can't do with "my" property. Like run a business from it or mine for coal etc.There must be loads of pieces of land in England with no "official" owner so there must be scope for a land grab of sorts. Claiming adverse posession and ultimately the freehold title of unregistered land is not a straightforward as it seems and with the revised Land Registration Act (2002) became more difficult, the revision giving the paper owner (even of unregistered land) more protection against loosing it. Unless the 'owner' really wasn't bothered, you are unlikely to succeed these days.Freehold does mean ownership however, the original vendor or other person with an interest in the land (eg utility companies) can have covenants included in the deeds as a codition of sale. These may give you specific rights, place restrictions on the use of the land or impose certain duties upon you as the owner. It is quite usual and can be very complex but covenants rarely cause the average person any real grief.

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 4:36 pm

I'm not allowed to operate a steam engine in my garden, can't you understand the pain that causes me?

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 4:43 pm

Cardiarms wrote: I'm not allowed to operate a steam engine in my garden, can't you understand the pain that causes me? Get a diesel one then!

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 4:50 pm

Heresy, stone the moderniser!

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 5:26 pm

Cardiarms wrote: I'm not allowed to operate a steam engine in my garden, can't you understand the pain that causes me? Try a wind turbine then? Oops sorry, no that will need planning and mrs Smith two miles up the road will object, so yer stuck with the grief