Knostrop or Knowsthorpe ??

The origins and history of placenames, nicknames, local slang, etc.
Sandra
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Postby Sandra » Wed 11 Apr, 2007 3:06 pm

The photo is of Laburnum Cottage/Laburnum House which was at the end of Cross Green Lane, Knostrop (or Knowsthorpe).
The part on the L was called Laburnum Cottage and was occupied by my g'parents (Musgrave) from the early 1900s until it was demolished in the late 1950s or early 1960s. The part of the building on the R was occupied by Mr Pease (a carpenter and undertaker). I believe the land and buildings originally belonged to the Temple Newsam Estate. G'pa Musgrave used to grow rhubarb - I believe the area was 'famous' for that?

When I visited Leeds last year I couldn't exactly work out where the buildings used to be but maybe behind a stone wall at the end of Cross Green Lane where it looks like the road has been blocked off (just past where St Hilda's School was - where the Musgrave children went to School). Is St Hilda's Church still standing ... it had scaffolding around it so not sure if it was going to be demolished as well.

Was there some grand plan for this area and what happened - seems like things have been pulled down but nothing new built? There's also a road leading to the motorway but that doesn't seem to have been connected.

Also what is this area called - I've seen it variously spelt as Knowsthorpe, Knostrop and variations?
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Phill_d
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Postby Phill_d » Wed 11 Apr, 2007 3:27 pm

It's both as far as i can tell. Knowstrop seem to be the sewage works & Knowsthorpe seem to be the area although where is Knowsthorpe? It doesn't seem to have a defined boundary. Is it East end park,Crossgreen or Hunslet?
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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Wed 11 Apr, 2007 8:26 pm

Thorpe is an anglo Scandinavian word for small village or hamlet,as descibed on Wikipedia

"Thorp is a Middle English word for a hamlet or small village, from Old English (Anglo-Saxon)/ Old Norse Þorp (also thorp). There are many place names in England with the suffix "-thorp" or "-thorpe". Most are in East Yorkshire, Lincolnshire but some are in Surrey.

Old English (Anglo-Saxon) Þorp (also thorp) is cognate with German Dorf as inLaughusseldorf"

This suffix appears a number of times in the Leeds area Austhorpe,
Buslingthorpe,and nearby to Knowsthorpe/Knostrop,Osmondthorpe.
I have come across the latter refered to as "Oswinthorpe" in early Leeds Parish Registers and is believed,in this case,to literally mean
"settlement belonging to Oswin/Osmond" it would only have been the smallest collection of houses,probably half a dozen if that

Knostrop/ Knowsthorpe seems to be a choice of pronunciation for the same place.A modern map in the Illustrated History of Leeds showing the lay of the land in 1086 describes the area as "Fields of Knostrop" and in Francis Places"A Prospect of Leeds"made around 1715 ,the orginal of which appears in Ralph Thoresbys Ducatus Leodiensis describes the place from which the engraving to be have made as "Knostrop Road".There is also Knostrop Hall built around 1644 during the civil war and was demolished in 1960 and at one time occupied by the painter John Atkinson Grimshaw who painted the hall.

The other version appears in the 1850 Ordnance survey map of Leeds,where the area on the other side of the Aire,directly opposite Low Road in Hunslet,is shown as Knowsthorpe Fields and there is also Knowsthorpe flood Locks at the conjunction of the Aire and Calder Navigation canal and the river Aire.

These same Locks are also described on the Leodis website as Knostrop Flood Locks,so i think the answer really is that they are both correct,one,Knowsthorpe,is probably the correct spelling,and knostrop the "Local" interpretation/pronunciation.

Perhaps a better informed person may be able to shed more light on this but its my best guess





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farbank
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Postby farbank » Wed 04 Jul, 2007 9:10 pm

Hi Sandra,
                Just seen your message, as I'm a recent addict to the site. But like your grandad Musgrave, me and my family all originate from Cross Green.
I would guess that the cottages were at the end of Knowsthorpe Ln. with its junc. of Cross Green Ln. Just on the land where the new school buildings are. A row of cottages appear there on the 1908 OS. Map. And just further down the lane towards, and just prior to, Knowsthorpe Hall, [where Grimshaw lived ], was the C. of E. orphanage. St. Saviors Home. This was built at the behest of Agnes Stewart I believe, and after whom the late school at Burmantofts was named. All these now long gone.
But St. Hildas church is still there. And undergoing restoration. Besides it being the school my mother attended {St. Saviours, next
door to the church ], I was christened there. And when they had a heritage open day some years ago, I was delighted to be able to see where I actually had my head wetted.
[ Unfotunately it didnt work. But the nostalgia of seeing it did.!]

wiggy
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Postby wiggy » Sun 19 Aug, 2007 10:41 pm

Phill_d wrote:
It's both as far as i can tell. Knowstrop seem to be the sewage works & Knowsthorpe seem to be the area although where is Knowsthorpe? It doesn't seem to have a defined boundary. Is it East end park,Crossgreen or Hunslet?

lets clear this up,it is pronounced knostrop and spelt knowsthorpe.so i was told as a nipper.
i do believe,induced by potent circumstances,that thou art' mine enemy?
woody
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Postby woody » Mon 03 Mar, 2008 8:25 pm

Sandra wrote:
The photo is of Laburnum Cottage/Laburnum House which was at the end of Cross Green Lane, Knostrop (or Knowsthorpe).
The part on the L was called Laburnum Cottage and was occupied by my g'parents (Musgrave) from the early 1900s until it was demolished in the late 1950s or early 1960s. The part of the building on the R was occupied by Mr Pease (a carpenter and undertaker). I believe the land and buildings originally belonged to the Temple Newsam Estate. G'pa Musgrave used to grow rhubarb - I believe the area was 'famous' for that?

When I visited Leeds last year I couldn't exactly work out where the buildings used to be but maybe behind a stone wall at the end of Cross Green Lane where it looks like the road has been blocked off (just past where St Hilda's School was - where the Musgrave children went to School). Is St Hilda's Church still standing ... it had scaffolding around it so not sure if it was going to be demolished as well.

Was there some grand plan for this area and what happened - seems like things have been pulled down but nothing new built? There's also a road leading to the motorway but that doesn't seem to have been connected.

Also what is this area called - I've seen it variously spelt as Knowsthorpe, Knostrop and variations?

woody
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JoinedCOLON Sun 02 Mar, 2008 3:42 pm

Postby woody » Mon 03 Mar, 2008 8:44 pm

I lived in Cross Green Lane in the 1950s/60s and knew Mr Harry Peas well, he let me park my first car in the big garden shown on the picture in front of Laburnum House. He had a son called Nigel.
     I also knew a lady whse single name was, Mable Musfrave. She went to to school with my own mother and lived on the same lane as Mr Peas. Her married name was Clay and they had two sons, Brian and I believe John. They both attended St Hilda's Primary School. Later I played football with the younger of the two boys for St Hilda's open age football team in the Leeds Churches League. Brian, in particular, was very bright and passed his scholarship - I think they both did? Brian's name is inscribed on the roll of honour in St Hilda's Church vestry    
woody
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Postby woody » Mon 03 Mar, 2008 8:45 pm

I lived in Cross Green Lane in the 1950s/60s and knew Mr Harry Peas well, he let me park my first car in the big garden shown on the picture in front of Laburnum House. He had a son called Nigel.
     I also knew a lady whse single name was, Mable Musfrave. She went to to school with my own mother and lived on the same lane as Mr Peas. Her married name was Clay and they had two sons, Brian and I believe John. They both attended St Hilda's Primary School. Later I played football with the younger of the two boys for St Hilda's open age football team in the Leeds Churches League. Brian, in particular, was very bright and passed his scholarship - I think they both did? Brian's name is inscribed on the roll of honour in St Hilda's Church vestry    

The Parksider
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Postby The Parksider » Tue 25 Mar, 2008 9:57 pm

Apologies if done before but Matteson & meakins turn of the century Leeds History calls Knowsthorpe Hall "Knostrop Hall".

Easy road tramcar to terminus and ten minutes walk to the home of Leeds first M.P.

It was still a village at that time and they refer to "The village street". Go to Kirkstall abbey museum (with your specs) and look at the 1700's map of Leeds. Knowsthorpe was indeed a real village once.

The history refers to the area being blackened by the forges and foundries of Hunslet, so the abandonment may mirror the abandonment of Park Square for the hills of Little Woodhouse, then away to the suburbs for the rich.

In terms of Knostrop old hall at the turn of the century part of the downstairs was rented out to a tenant, but the place was decaying and the bedrooms full of pigeons. The carved oak grand hall was the last part to fall into decay.

Thoresby apparently visited Knowsthorpe when it abounded with corn fields and coal pits......
Daimlergirl
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Postby Daimlergirl » Tue 13 Jan, 2009 10:59 pm

Hi Everyone
Just joined SecretLeeds tonight so's not sure what to do here.

I've just been eagerly searching for my gt grandfather's house in the newly released 1911 Census today. (William Thomas Webster b 1857), as yet I can't find it on the 1906 Ordnance Survey maps.

The house is given on my grandmothers marriage certificate (1926)as Sandford House, Cross Green Lane but as yet I have not been able to source this.

On the 1911 Census, however, I have found the house and it is listed as Sandford House Knostrop.     The occupants are the Horner family, Isaac being a market gardner.

I have found my grandfather listed in one of the Kelly Directories living at Sandford House and occupying "Sandford Cottage" at the same time was his daughter Ada with her husband Billie Musson.

Any help/advise on how to find further details much appreciated.

Regards
Lesley

PS
This site is great, I WILL find time to go through lots of the previous stuff and put my twopenneth in if I can.

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