"Silent As The Grave"

Railways, trams, buses, etc.
jim
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"Silent As The Grave"

Postby jim » Tue 07 Feb, 2017 9:36 pm

Came across this in a book on railway curiosities by Geoff and Ian Body;-

"The North Eastern Railway had an even more onerous obligation......being required to lay its rails 'on India rubber or similar substance' in order to deaden train sounds......The protection was for the cemetery at Leeds Parish Church, presumably out of concern for mourners rather than the long term occupants!"

There is no source reference, but this would have been part of the original Act of Parliament for the construction of the lines linking the Leeds and Selby Railway terminal at Marsh Lane with the Midland Railway's Holbeck triangle in c1870. This is of course the line passing through the present day Leeds Station, then named "Leeds New", but having had three major rebuilds since its original construction by the North Eastern and London & North Western Railways .
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uncle mick
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby uncle mick » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:48 am

Also mentioned in another book "A History of Modern Leeds" by Derek Fraser

http://tinyurl.com/je3v4zu


A History of Modern Leeds   Derek Fraser   Google Books.png
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jim
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby jim » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:27 am

Thanks Uncle Mick, good to have a source.
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blackprince
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby blackprince » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:25 am

That's an interesting article Uncle Mick, I wonder if the india rubber idea was a serious engineering solution to prevent structural damage to graves ( which could be elaborate structures in Victorian times) or just a sop to defuse objections from non-technical churchmen.
I suspect the latter. Also if the India rubber idea was ever implemented and for how long it was maintained.
Maybe the idea could be "resurrected "for HS2 when it comes to Leeds. :)

I do recall seeing gravestones in the embankment facing the bus station in the 1950/60s. I don't know if they are still there.
It used to be said that the statue of the Black Prince had been placed in City Square , near the station, pointing South to tell all the southerners who've just got off the train to b****r off back down south!

volvojack
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby volvojack » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:08 pm

[quote="blackprince"]That's an interesting article Uncle Mick, I wonder if the india rubber idea was a serious engineering solution to prevent structural damage to graves ( which could be elaborate structures in Victorian times) or just a sop to defuse objections from non-technical churchmen.
I suspect the latter. Also if the India rubber idea was ever implemented and for how long it was maintained.
Maybe the idea could be "resurrected "for HS2 when it comes to Leeds. :)

I do recall seeing gravestones in the embankment facing the bus station in the 1950/60s. I don't know if they are still there.



Maybe before the Railway came the area was flat with a cemetery opp. the Parish Church and then the gravestones were moved when an embankment was built .


I also remember the gravestoes there in the 50s / 60s. On a recent visit to leeds i noticed they were laid on the other side flat opp. the Parich Church and people just walked over them which i personally find disrespectfuul ( but i know I am old fashioned )
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tilly
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby tilly » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:38 pm

You are right volvojack the area opposite the now Leeds Minster was flat until the embankment was built.The gravestones laid flat were laid has a footpath through the graveyard.Has you say it feels wrong walking on them it was like that when i lived in Saxton Gardens in the late fiftys.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
Leodian
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby Leodian » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:07 pm

In John Mayhall's 'Annals of Yorkshire' there is a very interesting item, dated April 1 1869, relating to the building of the railway line that has a connection to the topic of this thread. In the item it states:-

“During the past three years the North-Eastern Railway Company had carried on, and this day completed an undertaking which will rank amongst the many great engineering feats in the annals of railway enterprise; their extension line through Leeds being of a most gigantic and costly character...Five arches bring the line on to Crown Street, after crossing which, by a wrought iron girder bridge, a series of arches pass diagonally through the Old White Cloth Hall Yard. There are 15 arches from this point to Kirkgate, where a handsome girder bridge of large span, tastefully ornamented with double headed trefoil panels and with quartrefoils, is erected; and other ten arches from Kirkgate across York Street to the old graveyard of the Parish Church...The Parish Church graveyard is crossed by means of an embankment 90 yards long, protected on each side by railings similar to those round the Parish Church. The gravestones were placed on the sides of the embankment as nearly as possible over the remains of the dead beneath, an arrangement which had the effect of soothing, as far as practicable, the injured feelings of the relatives...”.

I must look to see if the “double headed trefoil panels and with quartrefoils” are still there!

Edit added during February 9 2017. I had a look around when I was in the area today but I did not see anything that I thought might be the "double headed trefoil panels and with quatrefoils". Assuming I was looking in the right area I may of course have 'seen' them but not realised that I had!
A rainbow is a ribbon that Nature puts on when she washes her hair.
volvojack
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby volvojack » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 3:52 pm

[quote="tilly"]You are right volvojack the area opposite the now Leeds Minster was flat until the embankment was built.The gravestones laid flat were laid has a footpath through the graveyard.Has you say it feels wrong walking on them it was like that when i lived in Saxton Gardens in the late fiftys.


Hello tilly,
Yoour mention of Saxton Gardens reminds me that in the 1940s going to School my brother and I should have got off of the tram at the Hope Inn but it was more exciting to stay on and alight opp. the Bus Station, walk over Marsh Lane and up Mill St. through what is now Saxton Gardens. on those days there were still Joinery businesses and various others around Railway St, ect. but in in the main it was nearly all demolition of propertys, houses, pubs factorys, for us kids it was a great time and we would spend most lunchtimes exploring these buildings, lots of them were half dmolished but that never put us off going inside. Did not know at the time my Grandads pub was at the top Church Road.
Only blot on the landscape was actually going into School otherwise happy Days.

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tilly
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby tilly » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 10:52 pm

Hi volvojack we moved to Saxton Gardens from Hunslet in nineteen fifty nine it was the bees knees to us inside loo under floor heating wow.hot water a bath, taken for granted now but to us luxury.I never take anything for granted now did you go to St Marys School? i know that was just at the back of us.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
volvojack
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Re: "Silent As The Grave"

Postby volvojack » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 11:06 pm

tilly wroteColonHi volvojack we moved to Saxton Gardens from Hunslet in nineteen fifty nine it was the bees knees to us inside loo under floor heating wow.hot water a bath, taken for granted now but to us luxury.I never take anything for granted now did you go to St Marys School? i know that was just at the back of us.


Yes that was our School and overlooked "The Bank" which was all that area. The Gipton Estate was built and completed about 1934 to get people away from the awful conditions that they lived in, (quite a lot did not even have outside toilets but had "middens", the Council moved whole streets, lock stock and barrel up to the Gipton and kept where possible, neighbours side by side. My Mother said that moving up to York Road was like living in the country side,every thing was brand new, inside bath and toilets, almost unheard of in those days. The other big thing was that they got away from the smoke and smog of Indusrial Leeds.

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