Aircraft identification help needed

Railways, trams, buses, etc.
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blackprince
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by blackprince »

An alarming number of RAF Valettas crashed worldwide during the 50's.There were 3 Valetta crashes in Yorkshire alone in the relevant time period. These entries are from the Aviation Safety Net and UK Serials databases:-

04-MAY-1951 Vickers Valetta C.1 VW828 RAF 0 Dishforth RAF... A1
VW828 Vickers Valetta C1 f/f 21/06/1949, d/d 10/08/1949, w/o 04/05/1951, to 6865M, scr. Dishforth

20-SEP-1955 Vickers Valetta C.1 VW204 RAF 0 near Dishforth RAF... A1
VW204 Vickers Valetta C1 f/f 24/03/1949, d/d 03/05/1949, w/o 20/09/1955

06-AUG-1958 Vickers Valetta T.4 WJ467 RAF 0 near Leeming A1
WJ467 Vickers Valetta T4 f/f 07/02/1952, d/d 13/03/1952, w/o 06/08/1958

I thought that the crash of WJ 467 at RAF Leeming was the most likely candidate but the fate of this aircraft is recorded in some detail here
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history- ... crash.html
This makes interesting reading and includes photos of the crash site, alongside the A1, and a photo of the wrecked fuselage with its nose intact after it was transported to Sutton-on-Hull,Fire Training airfield, (incidentally causing traffic chaos in York when it fell off the transporter).

This leaves the 2 crashes at RAF Dishforth as possible candidates. Any other ideas?
Last edited by blackprince on Wed 04 Nov, 2015 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
It used to be said that the statue of the Black Prince had been placed in City Square , near the station, pointing South to tell all the southerners who've just got off the train to b****r off back down south!

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liits
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by liits »

Brilliant stuff Blackprince, well done. I wonder if anybody reads our SL thread and thinks "How the hell can people know this kind of thing" in the way that I've just felt reading the pprune.org forum.

Dalehelms
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by Dalehelms »

I am frequently in awe of the knowledge of posters on Secret Leeds. The site is a treasure trove of information.

j.c.d.
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by j.c.d. »

Can't find original picture to send to a Military site, Help Please. j.c.d.

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blackprince
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by blackprince »

j.c.d. wrote:Can't find original picture to send to a Military site, Help Please. j.c.d.
Hi j.c.d
I cant get lilts original photo either. I do have a copy of it on my laptop. I'll repost it later today unless lilts gets there first.
As ex-RAF with access to military websites could you ask for any info on the 2 Valetta crashes at Dishforth - with the serial nos & dates given previously. I know its the longest of long shots but worth a try?
Cheers,
-BP
It used to be said that the statue of the Black Prince had been placed in City Square , near the station, pointing South to tell all the southerners who've just got off the train to b****r off back down south!

j.c.d.
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Joined: Mon 27 Jan, 2014 4:54 pm

Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by j.c.d. »

Dalehelms wrote:I am frequently in awe of the knowledge of posters on Secret Leeds. The site is a treasure trove of information.
Would certainly endorse that, as someone who no longer lives in leeds but did so for many years this site is a real pleasure for me. Thanks to one and all.

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blackprince
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by blackprince »

Original photo re-uploaded
Image

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blackprince
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by blackprince »

The original photo has some well defined shadows so I thought I would try and estimate the date and time of day using the method described in this article:
http://forensicgenealogy.info/blog/work ... hotograph/
I used google maps to estimate the spot the photo was taken from and the angle the camera was pointing, measured a couple of the shadows (pity the tram shadow is cut off by the edge of the photo)-plugged in the numbers and got an answer of 10.30 am on 25th Oct.
There is obviously a wide margin of error but October looks like the right time of year to me ( the trees are still in leaf but the bush in the lower left corner looks to have brown leaves). Also, despite the bright sunshine, the workmen are wearing overcoats and caps - OK I know that's what passed for beachwear in the 1950's Leeds! :D
It used to be said that the statue of the Black Prince had been placed in City Square , near the station, pointing South to tell all the southerners who've just got off the train to b****r off back down south!

Bradlad
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Joined: Wed 18 Nov, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by Bradlad »

It could be a Westland Scout/ wasp, the roundel on the side corresponds with the usual position for them, however there doesn't seem to be the large pilots door, however the damage may have masked it.

It's too small to be much else, almost certinaly not a multi engine fixed wing.
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blackprince
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Re: Aircraft identification help needed

Post by blackprince »

Hi Bradlad,
The latest possible date for this photo is 7th Nov 1959 when Leeds Tramways stopped operating. This photo predates the first flight of both the Scout and the Wasp (29 Aug 1960 and 28 Oct 1962 respectively).

-BP
It used to be said that the statue of the Black Prince had been placed in City Square , near the station, pointing South to tell all the southerners who've just got off the train to b****r off back down south!

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