Aircraft identification help needed

[Bradlad]

Hi Bradlad,
The latest possible date for this photo is 7th Nov 1959 when Leeds Tramways stopped operating. This photo predates the first flight of both the Scout and the Wasp (29 Aug 1960 and 28 Oct 1962 respectively).

-BP

Ah of course, Ah well, I'll keep racking my brains then.

[blackprince]

Bradlad's point about the size of the wreck got me thinking.

You can estimate the size of the cockpit on the trailer from the known height of the Bedford Lorry( which is 2.6m).The height of the wreck from the flatbed of the truck comes out at 2.2m ( my estimate by scaling from an enlarged photo). This is the minimum height because some of the wreck could be hidden by the trailer sides (0.8 m high).
An actual Valetta cockpit is 2.5m high ( taken from scale drawing found online).
So size doesn't rule out this being from a 1950's era twin engine fixed wing a/c. such as a Vickers Valetta, Varsity etc.

As an aside the Vickers Valetta was a transport/ paratroop carrier design based on the wartime twin engine Wellington bomber and has virtually the same dimensions. The early models even had fabric covered wings.

Here are a couple of photos of a Lancaster bomber and a Westland Whirlwind on transporters, both much larger than our wreck.

[Old and perculier]

I think the aircraft in the picture is a Hunting Piston Provost, a 1950s piston engined trainer aircraft (not the later jet powered aircraft) . The engine has been removed and it seems to be mounted high up on the trailer perhaps on top of the wings.
I am having trouble finding a picture to post showing the aircraft at this angle but there are a number of videos on the internet you can google Hunting piston provost and see what you think.

[Bruno]

Re the reference above by Old and perculier to the wings, I have only just noticed on the photo something which looks like a propellor with cut down blades on the bed of the lorry, just about beneath the back window of the cockpit.

[blackprince]

I've had a good look at a number of photos of the Hunting Piston Provost trainer and I believe you are correct with the id.
Here are a couple of photos taken from an angle. The cockpit glazing is a good match and the roundel is in about the right place. So well done O&P!

[mhoulden]

There was a mid-air collision between 2 Provosts on 6th October 1959: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=56673. Thankfully both pilots survived and made it back to base. The planes flew out of RAF Linton-on-Ouse and were eventually scrapped as being unrepairable, so I'm going to guess the photo was taken a couple of weeks after the accident when it was en route somewhere for more detailed investigation. RAF Shawbury in Shropshire was the main base for storage and scrapping work until 1972, and York Road followed by the A62 to Manchester would have been a sensible route to take in the days before motorways if they wanted to avoid the A53 over the Peak District.

[warringtonrhino]

Both of the piston provosts involved in the mid air collision were taken to Luton, would they have gone down the A1?
I assume that when they landed, the ground crews salvaged all the reusable items, making the aircraft look as damaged as the one on the transporter.

[blackprince]

There was a mid-air collision between 2 Provosts on 6th October 1959: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=56673. Thankfully both pilots survived and made it back to base. The planes flew out of RAF Linton-on-Ouse and were eventually scrapped as being unrepairable, so I'm going to guess the photo was taken a couple of weeks after the accident when it was en route somewhere for more detailed investigation. RAF Shawbury in Shropshire was the main base for storage and scrapping work until 1972, and York Road followed by the A62 to Manchester would have been a sensible route to take in the days before motorways if they wanted to avoid the A53 over the Peak District.

This looks like the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle.
By coincidence, or a triumph of astronomical science , my estimate that the photo was taken on or about the 25th of October fits in well with the date of this air accident. If the date is correct then the photo was taken only a couple of weeks before final closure of Leeds Tramways on 7th November '59.

[mhoulden]

The Provosts weren't taken to Luton immediately: WV578 was written off a year later. There's actually a photo of it in a rather mangled state at http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p10 ... /h54DE6ED1. I'm not sure if it's the same one as on the back of the truck, but apart from the paint and windows it does look pretty similar.

[tyke bhoy]

The Provosts weren't taken to Luton immediately: WV578 was written off a year later. There's actually a photo of it in a rather mangled state at http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p10 ... /h54DE6ED1. I'm not sure if it's the same one as on the back of the truck, but apart from the paint and windows it does look pretty similar.

Sorry I'm going to be argumentative, as is my won't, on this. The WV578 in the image posted by MHoulden is in much worse condition than the one in the original image. If the WV578 photo is from the crash site then it almost definitely not the one on the Bedford. Of course if it has been used as a hen house for a year after being scrapped before being photographed then its possible.

Congratulations to Black Prince if the timing does turn out to be accurate