EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Railways, trams, buses, etc.
BLAKEY
Posts: 2556
Joined: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 4:42 am

EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by BLAKEY »

Well, it hasn't taken long for the new private regime, Virgin and Stagecoach, to bring in the first change !!
I can see Headingley Station from my nearby flat and so, just out of interest, this morning I looked out for the daily Harrogate - King's Cross 125 flier which comes through around 0755 after pulling up at Horsforth to relieve the abominable Northern Rail overcrowding there. At first galnce I thought it was in the ususal ECML conservative (small c) and pleasing livery till I noticed that on each power car was a large red diagonal panel bearing in white the famous signature "Virgin." I'm bound to wonder how long this franchise will last before the new order realise that the till isn't jingling fast enough to satisfy the shareholders !!
There's nothing like keeping the past alive - it makes us relieved to reflect that any bad times have gone, and happy to relive all the joyful and fascinating experiences of our own and other folks' earlier days.

User avatar
cnosni
Site Admin
Posts: 4199
Joined: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 4:47 pm

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by cnosni »

£3.3bn in 8 years is a tall order. East Coast,with no shareholders to pay and a very very very financially tight regime holding the purse strings at the top paid £206m to the exchequer in 2013/2014.
That's after all running costs and with East Coast paying £53m a year to lease the trains.

For VTEC (Virgin East a Coast Trains) to meet the £3.3bn over 8 years you will be looking at an average of over £400m a year to be paid to the exchequer after paying shareholders and meeting running costs in addition to promised improvements to stations etc etc.

Of more concern is the leasing costs for the new fleet of IEP trains.

Virgin West Coat paid over £300m to lease its trains in 2012/2013 and the figures for the new trains on the East Coast from 2018/2019 will gradually rise to over £400m a year by 2020.

So before running costs of stations and shareholders,employees and creditors/suppliers are paid at least £800m must be found to pay the government and lease the trains.

Bare in mind that all post running profits went to the government with East Coast in the last 5 years and the biggest premium paid to the government in one of those 5 years was just under £250m.
Don't get me started!!My Flickr photos-http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/Secret Leeds [email protected]

simong
Posts: 722
Joined: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 6:17 am

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by simong »

The decision to give the franchise to Virgin will come back to haunt the government. I've heard that several other companies put in much better proposals but two of those other companies were Deutsche Bahn and Abelio, which is a subsidiary of Swedish Railways, and the final decision was very much based on them being a British company (ish). Virgin were *given* around four billion to run the West Coast main line over ten years and it remains to be seen how much they will expect to keep ECML running.

dogduke
Posts: 1402
Joined: Thu 03 Jan, 2008 6:47 am

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by dogduke »

According to our dear old YEP in the article about a lady baking 3500 cupcakes for Virgin ECML they have taken over the east coast main line from Aberdeen to Plymouth.
Started road learning yet cnosi??
Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.90% of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

User avatar
cnosni
Site Admin
Posts: 4199
Joined: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 4:47 pm

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by cnosni »

dogduke wrote:According to our dear old YEP in the article about a lady baking 3500 cupcakes for Virgin ECML they have taken over the east coast main line from Aberdeen to Plymouth.
Started road learning yet cnosi??
Drawing some route maps as we speak!!
Don't get me started!!My Flickr photos-http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/Secret Leeds [email protected]

raveydavey
Posts: 2886
Joined: Thu 22 Mar, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: The Far East (of Leeds...)
Contact:

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by raveydavey »

Fortunately I don't have plans to go to that there London anytime soon.
Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act – George Orwell

User avatar
cnosni
Site Admin
Posts: 4199
Joined: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 4:47 pm

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by cnosni »

raveydavey wrote:Fortunately I don't have plans to go to that there London anytime soon.
The problem is that long distance rail journeys are expensive in the UK and it is this that puts people off.

There are limited numbers of advance purchase cheap fare tickets on most non peak hour trains,however these tend to go pretty quickly.

The new IEP fleet which the ECML will start getting from 2018 will not only have quicker journey times and be more reliable but they will also be more numerous.

There will be 13 bi modal (choice of diesel or electric) 9 car sets to replace the 14 HST's, 30 electric sets to replace the 30 Mkiv sets.

Additionally there will be another 22 sets with 5 cars, a mixture of bi modal and electric only.

We have now heard that there is consideration of additionally retaining 10 of the mkiv sets and making them into 7 car sets including DVT (so reducing overall length by 2 coaches) and retaining enough if the current 91 locos to run them.

We already know that the new franchise has specified additional services to Leeds and also new destinations but retaining some of the mkiv sets seems to indicate that they are planning on running more services than envisaged.

Therefore more services should mean more cheap advance fare tickets one would hope.

The idea of making the mkiv sets into 7 car sets is that they will be able to almost match the acceleration that the new trains are supposed to have.

It seems likely that they will form the current and future additional all stop services between KX and York which tend not to be that busy,well certainly not to the same degree as KX to Leeds etc.

The new in cab signalling is planned (I stress PLANNED ) to be in place between KX and Doncaster by 2020.

It will gradually come into commission in stages from KX in a northerly direction.

The in cab signalling will allow for more paths and therefore more trains as there will be no fixed signals or associated line side equipment only a speed given to the driver to which they should travel,it will pretty much mean that they can run 2 trains in the same path that 1 train alone would have needed.

However in cab signalling is hitting snags at busy stations.

Doncaster for example is far too complicated and it looks as if normal fixed signalling will be retained for busy stations with multi direction junctions.

The current mkiv and hst fleet are now undergoing returns, not only inside the coaching stock but also to eventually be converted to having in cab signalling installed whilst retaining fixed signalling equipment .

Train journey Leeds to London will also reduce in time,with stops mostly being limited to Wakefield and Doncaster,though the extra 3rd hourly service will not call at Wakefield as it will leave Leeds East and go via Micklefield and South Milford to join the ECML at Hambleton.

The journey times are going to be under 2 hours and with the possibility of 140mph running being introduced on certain stretches (pending removal of foot and level crossings and being replaced by bridges) then I think we will see a vastly improved service.
Don't get me started!!My Flickr photos-http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/Secret Leeds [email protected]

User avatar
liits
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun 25 Mar, 2007 11:24 am
Location: North London
Contact:

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by liits »

I don't see the current journey times as a problem. Two and a bit hours at the moment is fine and is a lot quicker that I could drive it. It only falls down when there are outside problems [some daft mare dropping her handbag between the train and platform held things up by 20 mins last time - it's retrieval turning into a full-blown H&S exercise].
Any problem I have will be with the new stock and it's lesser number of cars in each set.
I remember when the WCML started using the Pendolino sets and some of the arguments about seats [or lack thereof] that took and take place.
Its all well and good reserving your seat but you have to have your backside on it to make it yours!
From the passenger's point of view, it looks as though seats are reserved from, say, Euston to Manchester and yet the punter for whom they are reserved doesn't get on until Stoke! Admittedly, it sorts itself out eventually but the initial musical chairs at Euston and then again at subsequent stations....! Oh, and then the joy of having somerbody's arse stuck in your ear for a couple of hours is not as much fun as you'd imagine. All this because there are not enough seats [reserved or otherwise] on an ordinary service - not race day, cup final or bank holiday etc, etc.
For all that the TOC's keep saying that more people are travelling by rail, I'd have thought that longer trains running more often would have been the solution, not shorter trains running more often.

User avatar
cnosni
Site Admin
Posts: 4199
Joined: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 4:47 pm

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by cnosni »

The new trains may have less vehicles but they have more seats.
There will be no DVT (which is a concern as it's invaluable on Anglo Scots services or when large groups like school parties are travelling for putting multiple pieces of luggage in) the kitchen and part of the First class seating will be in the leading vehicle directly behind the driver.
At the other end the vehicle will be half seating half loco,so all in all,so the theory goes,there should be roughly the same amount of passenger space.

However my other half has been involved in the development process of the interiors and I'm told that there really isn't any vestibule in a coach,you basically walk straight into the seating area and three is a rising ramp between vehicles that's a bit of a squeeze.

The real benefit of reducing the timing to less than 2 hours isn't just about speed it's about bring able to get trains from A to B much quicker,thus enabling a quicker turn around of a terminating set which will allow a higher turnover of sets in and out of stations to provide the extra services.

We shall see what happens.Just glad that Great Western will get the trains before the ECML as they can deal with the teething problems on the new trains.

One other thing,VTEC will have a buffet bar for standard passengers. They are taking out 16 seats to accommodate it.
Don't get me started!!My Flickr photos-http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/Secret Leeds [email protected]

Cardiarms
Posts: 2993
Joined: Tue 21 Oct, 2008 8:30 am

Re: EAST COAST MAIN LINE

Post by Cardiarms »

Where can I put my bike?

Post Reply