Leeds trolleybus scheme delayed further

Railways, trams, buses, etc.
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tyke bhoy
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Postby tyke bhoy » Thu 14 Aug, 2014 1:10 pm

jim wrote:
We should remember that the purpose of the majority of the proposed new transport "solutions" is not to replace the exiting services that cater to the citizens of Leeds, but to attract out of town commuters etc to leave their vehicles in car parks on the city periphery and travel into Leeds by speedier systems thus (hopefully) freeing up existing road systems and reducing congestion.

Many of the SL posts on the subject focus on the direct transport needs of Leeds residents, who are not the users that the proposals seek to target.

I can only partially agree with that Jim. If it were solely for out of town commuters then folleybus and supertram before it would only have need of one stop north of the Parkinson Building (at the Car Park) and perhaps two south of the Aire (one close to the city centre and one at Stourton). Indeed the north eastern route of Supertram, which was dropped either just before or just after Supertram became follybus, was very indirect in order to meander past St James and then some of the more populated areas of LS9.

The Elland rode P&R is the model that would have been followed were it solely for out of towners i.e. direct from the P&R to city centre and direct back. Where the ER P&R falls down is that it probably isn't far enough out of town and it should venture north of Boar Lane and probably east of it too (kirkgate?).
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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Thu 14 Aug, 2014 2:16 pm

LS1 wrote:


The real answer to reducing journey time is not attaching a bus to a pole. It is to provide specific reserved areas for the buses to run on. Until this problem has been solved there will be endless arguments about the way forward. Unfortunately though it seems the areas where most of the congestion is there is not the physical space to implement reserved bus ways.


Thats the key Lee, absolutely.
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Postby Cardiarms » Thu 14 Aug, 2014 4:09 pm

All the models I've seen for justifying the project are based on max occupancy at the P&R at peak times meaning locals further down the line won't get on. That's if people get out of their comfortable cars to stand on a bus.

A reply I got from trolley bus said that they 'hoped' more people would use it if there were wires because it have the bus a 'stronger sense of permanence'.

Toss.
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Postby BLAKEY » Thu 14 Aug, 2014 9:52 pm

LS1 says :-Before deregulation Leeds City Transport was being run at a loss. All you have to do is look at the the relevant documents to see that it was being subsidised by the council. The fleet was old, outdated and not always fully functional. The mechanics in those days must have worked marvels to keep them going.

I'm afraid that if I've read this paragraph correctly I must respectfully take issue on several points.    Firstly, Leeds City Transport ceased in April 1974 when the county wide West Yorkshire Passenger Transport PTA/PTE came into existence. Yes, up to that point losses were being made for many reasons (TV, unemployment, modern vehicles expensive to buy and maintain etc etc) but this was the case with a very large proportion of the Country's operators.    The fleet was most certainly not "old and outdated" and indeed the several hundred large 78 seat dual doorway buses - and a huge fleet of full size AEC and Daimler dual doorway saloons - introduced in LCT days were industry leaders in comfort, smart appearance and efficiency.
Twelve years was to elapse until De-regulation in October 1986 when Yorkshire Rider was formed in a revolutionary and completely fresh climate for the Industry - a formation initially effectively an "arms length" Company of the PTA/PTE, but before long to become completely private in the normal sense after changes in title/identity........and "First."

    
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Postby raveydavey » Thu 14 Aug, 2014 10:55 pm

Cardiarms wrote:
All the models I've seen for justifying the project are based on max occupancy at the P&R at peak times meaning locals further down the line won't get on. That's if people get out of their comfortable cars to stand on a bus.

A reply I got from trolley bus said that they 'hoped' more people would use it if there were wires because it have the bus a 'stronger sense of permanence'.

Toss.


Its effectively a mass transit system to serve the two park and rides giving Cllrs Lewis and Wakefield an excuse to introduce "congestion" charging in the city centre.

The intermediate stops appear little more than a sop to the locals in an attempt to justify the eye watering cost that will land on them. If the follybus is full (over half the passengers standing, remember) its no use to anyone further down the line.

I'm also still at a loss to validate the wandering route planned for South Leeds, other than for reasons outlined above. Is it mass transit for the Stourton P&R or a local bus to get Belle Islers up the hill from Morrison's?

There is nothing at all in this scheme that couldn't be delivered by buses at a fraction of the cost (and I don't mean those heinously expensive Borismasters).
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Postby raveydavey » Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:41 pm

We've been to Liverpool today.

Significantly smaller than Leeds, yet it has a frequent (and cheap) underground system running on a loop system connecting the main points of the city centre into a wider urban rail system that links the whole area.

On top of that they have a non monopoly bus service, with services run by Stagecoach, Arriva and a wide range of smaller companies (but no First that I could see - perhaps they don't like the competition?).

Perhaps Leeds City Council or Metro would like to take some inspiration from our Scouse cousins? In fact, the achievements of Liverpool show the lack of ambition that our civic leaders have, which is seriously holding Leeds back.    
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Postby uncle mick » Wed 01 Oct, 2014 5:09 am

"The benefits of the New Generation Transport (NGT) Project have been grossly exaggerated"

£250m trolleybus scheme in the city is “weak, flawed and misleading.”

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Postby Cardiarms » Wed 01 Oct, 2014 9:50 pm

The objectors have been recording the inspector's sessions as a formal record. I haven't listened byt some of the summaries make the 'defence' of the trolleybus sound pretty flimsy.

This is the only record of the proceedings there are no formal minutes or transcripts being kept!

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Re: Leeds trolleybus scheme delayed further

Postby mhoulden » Wed 29 Oct, 2014 10:39 pm

It's good to be back here. Anyway, a while ago there was a survey in the YEP which included a few questions about the trolley bus. The results are now in and found that 55% of respondents were against it and only 24% in favour. Leeds definitely needs some sort of mass transit system, but not this method or these routes. Unfortunately the northern rail franchise is expected to do "more with less" and they' even suggested the clapped out old Pacer trains won't be scrapped.
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Re: Leeds trolleybus scheme delayed further

Postby romeo to control » Wed 29 Oct, 2014 10:47 pm

Does this mean that the Headingley Tram depot will not now be rebuilt to house this and the mono rail might just come back on the agenda.Bring back Exors.of S Ledgard, LCT and West Yorkshire Road Car.
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