Iron works

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The Parksider
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Re: Iron works

Postby The Parksider » Tue 17 Nov, 2015 9:57 am

liits wroteColonThe Low Moor Coal & Iron Co. were the freeholders of the White Horse Inn, now the White Horse, on York Road.


Could they therefore have been behind the York Road venture? This possibly being a subsidiary company?

They seem to crop up all over Leeds and Bradford as owners of mines and iron works. Begs the question was the Farnley set up independant of them?
jim
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Re: Iron works

Postby jim » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:14 pm

The Parksider wroteColon
jim wroteColonI have sent you a personal message on this site Parksider.


That's so kind. I'm not too hot on this revamped set up but I clicked on the envelope icon and clicked inbox and there was nothing there Jim - am I looking in the right place?


I asked dsco to send my email address to your email inbox, and he has done so Parksider.
grumpytramp
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Re: Iron works

Postby grumpytramp » Thu 26 Nov, 2015 8:49 pm

The Parksider wroteColon
liits wroteColonThe Low Moor Coal & Iron Co. were the freeholders of the White Horse Inn, now the White Horse, on York Road.


Could they therefore have been behind the York Road venture? This possibly being a subsidiary company?


No I think is the simple answer.

I suspect that the Low Moor Coal & Iron Co tenure of the White Horse Inn has more to do with the fact that in the late nineteenth century they owned the land to the south of York Road and west of Osmondthorpe Lane.

How this came to pass I am not certain? I am not sure when the Low Moor Coal & Iron Co interests began at Osmondthorpe Colliery but suspect it would be quite late in the nineteenth century as the owners noted in returns to government were:

1869 Osmondthorpe - The Farnely Iron Co.

1880 Osmondthorpe No.1 - Hird, Dawson and Hardy.
Osmondthorpe No.2 - Hird, Dawson and Hardy.

1908 Osmondthorpe - Low Moor Co. Ltd

The York Road Iron Co furnaces came into being in 1868 were initialled operated by W & R Garside who operated the Iron Works plus both the White Horse and Killingbeck Colleries. At some point shortly after (? 1870) the trading company became the York Road Iron & Coal Co. (which I think the trustees of W & R Garside still retained control)
The Parksider
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Re: Iron works

Postby The Parksider » Thu 26 Nov, 2015 9:13 pm

grumpytramp wroteColon
The Parksider wroteColon
liits wroteColonThe Low Moor Coal & Iron Co. were the freeholders of the White Horse Inn, now the White Horse, on York Road.


Could they therefore have been behind the York Road venture? This possibly being a subsidiary company?


No I think is the simple answer.

I suspect that the Low Moor Coal & Iron Co tenure of the White Horse Inn has more to do with the fact that in the late nineteenth century they owned the land to the south of York Road and west of Osmondthorpe Lane.

How this came to pass I am not certain? I am not sure when the Low Moor Coal & Iron Co interests began at Osmondthorpe Colliery but suspect it would be quite late in the nineteenth century as the owners noted in returns to government were:

1869 Osmondthorpe - The Farnely Iron Co.

1880 Osmondthorpe No.1 - Hird, Dawson and Hardy.
Osmondthorpe No.2 - Hird, Dawson and Hardy.

1908 Osmondthorpe - Low Moor Co. Ltd

The York Road Iron Co furnaces came into being in 1868 were initialled operated by W & R Garside who operated the Iron Works plus both the White Horse and Killingbeck Colleries. At some point shortly after (? 1870) the trading company became the York Road Iron & Coal Co. (which I think the trustees of W & R Garside still retained control)


Deeply indebted as always - The 1880 listings say......

107 White Horse (York Road), Leeds, York Road Iron and Coal Co.

So although no map marks and names the colliery I think I can assume the colliery was all part of the Iron Works?.

For 1893 I have mines who dig both Ironstone and coal around Farnley as being Farnley Wood (Simpson), Sowden & Briggs.

Whilst I have you floating about I noted that in a geological precis for Leeds Farnley was noted as being a glacial lake many years ago. This leading to the deposits of silica possibly in the form of Fireclay but also "Ganister". The twist is that the Ironworks which produced straight bricks and coal also did firebricks but also are noted for "Porcelain" & "Enamel"

Were glacial deposits responsible for the latter do you think??

The Parksider
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Re: Iron works

Postby The Parksider » Wed 30 Dec, 2015 10:18 am

Around 1850 the OS maps show Thorpe Hall Iron Works with a waggonway connection to a whole series of lines along Knowsthorpe Lane.

The works are fairly sizeable, and the coal pits extensive one being "Ingram Pit" so I assume this is all part of Waterloo Colliery.

Some pits are marked "coal & ironstone" and connect to the Thorpe Hall works.

The fascinating thing about this area is that so much attention is paid to the Middleton Railway & colliery as a sizeable venture, yet it seems dwarfed by the Waterloo Colliery which also seems to boast early brick kilns.

Knowsthorpe lane may be "deadsville" today but in 1850 was a massive hive of industry!

A tram road running off Knowsthorpe lane close to the site of the later M1/A1 link appears to me to remain a pathway today on google earth and may be the remains of an embankment running dead straight to the river, crossing a wooden bridge (Waterloo Bridge) and landing at the canal.

This map is sadly too late to show the waggonway from Middleton across to the canal that pre-dates the Miggy Railway.........
The Parksider
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Re: Iron works

Postby The Parksider » Fri 05 Feb, 2016 9:49 am

grumpytramp wroteColon
The York Road Iron Co furnaces came into being in 1868 were initialled operated by W & R Garside who operated the Iron Works



Open question for all in the absence of GT.

I've identified ironstone mining in Osmondthorpe, Farnley and Knowsthorpe, all with rail and tram links to "Ironworks" at York Road, Farnley and Thorpe (not the Thorpe near Middleton).

Therefore if they mined it they smelted it??

But some enjoyable journeys in Sheffield culminating at Abbeydale reveals that the Sheffield Iron Industry didn't much bother with local deposits of low grade ironstone (30% iron) and had access to imported iron from Northampton and Sweden -the latter by ship and canal and then horse for 80% iron ore.

My guess is it will be down to economics, but what exactly created a minor boom in Iron mining and production in Leeds during the 1800's I dunno.........

Anyone have any thoughts here?
warringtonrhino
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Re: Iron works

Postby warringtonrhino » Fri 05 Feb, 2016 2:32 pm

I found this in the archives on Wednesday, it was not what I was looking for but it may be relevant to this topic.
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The Parksider
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Re: Iron works

Postby The Parksider » Tue 09 Feb, 2016 9:46 am

warringtonrhino wroteColonI found this in the archives on Wednesday, it was not what I was looking for but it may be relevant to this topic.


That's fantastic WR

Looking at the thin seams of ironstone deep down the shafts it makes me wonder as regards the contrast with the "Ironhills" of Seacroft where the idea is ironstone was reached by Bell Pits.

The geology of it often quotes thin seams of ironstone appearing as nodules alongside the coal as you superb diagrams show. Having been able to pick over the Barrowby colliery spoil heap - one of the few left, and find these nodules again makes me think that ironstone mining wasn't undertaken in "bulk"?

Was it picked out at the same time the coal was mined? There is so much on coal and it's extraction and so little on the ironstone that it's quite fascinating.......

grumpytramp
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Re: Iron works

Postby grumpytramp » Tue 09 Feb, 2016 10:04 pm

The Parksider wroteColon Looking at the thin seams of ironstone deep down the shafts it makes me wonder as regards the contrast with the "Ironhills" of Seacroft where the idea is ironstone was reached by Bell Pits.

The geology of it often quotes thin seams of ironstone appearing as nodules alongside the coal as you superb diagrams show. Having been able to pick over the Barrowby colliery spoil heap - one of the few left, and find these nodules again makes me think that ironstone mining wasn't undertaken in "bulk"?

Was it picked out at the same time the coal was mined? There is so much on coal and it's extraction and so little on the ironstone that it's quite fascinating.......


Parkie, as WR excellent scan illustrates the Black Band ironstone occurs in thin layers and bands of nodules in a layer of carbonaceous shale generally directly above the Black Band Coal. Ironstone will be find throughout the coal measures particularly in carbonaceous shales and mudstones, but were only concentrated in certain horizon in sufficient quantity/quality to warrant commercial exploitation (to the south and east of the city in the roof measures of the Middleton Main and Flockton Thin).

I cannot be certain of the method of work, but I would have expected the coal to be won first to effectively form an undercut of the working face section of say an arms length (the coal was not of great quality but would still have some value). The overlying shale would then be picked down exposing the nodules and layers which would be sorted and collected to be hauled from pit leaving the shale as "waste" behind the working face allowing the next section of coal to be exposed and undercut. The sorting processing would not remove the shale that adhered to the ironstone, so when brought to the surface the ironstone was piled up and exposed to the weather. These carbonaceous shales absorb water, loose their strength, swell and rapidly weather allowing the ironstone to be effectively separated. By the late nineteenth century that system was rapidly replaced with engineered processes.

My suspicion is that the Iron Hills was once a focal point for processing ironstone, as the Black Band is probably far too deep for bell-pit workings over most of the enclosure identified in mapping as the Iron Hills.
grumpytramp
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Re: Iron works

Postby grumpytramp » Tue 09 Feb, 2016 10:34 pm

The Parksider wroteColonBut some enjoyable journeys in Sheffield culminating at Abbeydale reveals that the Sheffield Iron Industry didn't much bother with local deposits of low grade ironstone (30% iron) and had access to imported iron from Northampton and Sweden -the latter by ship and canal and then horse for 80% iron ore.

My guess is it will be down to economics, but what exactly created a minor boom in Iron mining and production in Leeds during the 1800's I dunno.........

Anyone have any thoughts here?


With the onset of the Industrial Revolution replacing artisan mining/smelting, the Black Band Ironstone of the Leeds and Bradford area use was primarily for production of very high quality wrought iron, which was still in substantive demand well into the 20th Century (particularly during the Great War). The Wrought Iron produced in Leeds and Bradford from the Black Band Ironstone and Better Bed coal had a world class reputation for strength and quality (as a result I believe of their relatively low phosphorous and sulphur contents respectively, and the particularly fine grained iron produced). The explosion in output in Leeds of the Better Bed particularly in the late 1850's reflects demand and it's decline reflects the exhaustion of economically exploitable reserves.

Elsewhere in Yorkshire where Ironstone production was competing with high quality haematite ores from Scandinavia (and of course Cumberland) or low cost similar quality ironstone being won from the Jurassic Ironstone band that extends from Lincolnshire, Rutland, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire and Oxfordshire. These Jurassic Ironstone deposits were generally thicker, of low grade and close to the surface resulting in the majority of the ore being won by opencast mining (though there were some underground workings). These mines rapidly mechanised and were still working in the 1970s (using similar sized draglines to those used in the opencast mines around Temple Newsam, but often hauling the ore directly from the face using locomotives directly to exchange sidings). Underground mining of Ironstone in the Sheffield area, whose history was as ancient and actually very closely related to the iron workings in Seacroft, simply could not compete and disappeared.

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