King Alfreds Castle - Stonegate Road

[oldleedsman]

Tony D wrote: I have just noted the discussion about Pen-y-ffynnon. My ggg-grandfather and his family lived there from at least 1824 until the 1870's so I have been collecting information on it for some time. Firstly the place is not on a hill so 'pen' meaning 'hill' is not really appropriate. On a map dated 1851 it is shown as a small collection of buildings like a farm house. On the map it is spelled 'Pen-y-ffynnon', a very Celtic looking name as various people have pointed out and offered translations. However on earlier family birth and death certificates from 1824, 1828 and 1851 it is spelled Pennyfynnan, Pennyfinnon and Penny Finon repectively; non of which spellings is particularly Celtic and the first syllable is consistently spelled like the coin. In the census of 1851 it is spelled Peney Funnan. On a death certificate of 1857 and in the census returns of 1861 and 1871 it is listed as Penny Found.I rather suspect that the Ordnance Survey surveyors heard the locals describing the place as Penny Funnon or Finnon and being Romantics assumed a Celtic origin. As someone has pointed out there was another farmhouse along the same lane called Halfpenny Lost on the 1851 map and it seems more likely to me that the two names were related , one to a Penny and the other to a Halfpenny It all depends which came first. It would seem strange for the census people to have been romantic in detailing their findings - they were trying to be factual. The multiple spellings seem to me to be attempts to spell a local name which no-one knew how to spell.Also, you say that there were some buildings in 1851 in the area labelled Pen-y-ffynnon. Why couldn't they be named after the nearby hill? Do we have any evidence that the name existed before 1824? http://www.alwoodley.leedslearning.org/ implies that there was a building of that name in the 18th Century, although I have no idea of the source.Call me a romantic, but I'm still with the celtic root for this.

[LS1]

I wonder how long it was actually known as "King Alfreds Field" It was of course Tunnel How Hill at first, it is mentioned so on maps. The Penny Ffion of however its spelt I reakon was rougly where Saxon road is now, at the point where the road between Sainsburys and Home base is. the Halfpenny was I think on the patch of grass on the left hand side of the ring road, coming towards Shadwell, just after King Lane (so opposite where the Queenshills are now. Tounge lane extened down to here following the path of the new ring road.

[Tony D]

Hi, I'm afraid my info on Penny Found runs out in 1824 so I don't know when the place was built. On a nostalgia trip I visited the area a couple of years age and found that the pub is roughly in its place. Purely for research purposes I went into the pub! There are some old photos on the walls but disappointingly not of the earlier buildings.    Tony

[jam]

penyffynnon was the name given by the welsh owner Gamaliel Lloyd in the 18 th century. Locals just broke the name down to Penny found. How as in tunnel how, i believe is a much older word, maybe Norse/viking. Look at all the towns around yorkshire... Howden, Howkeld, Howsham etc, I think the link to the meaning of entrance is a good one.

[David Raven]

Aye... and 'How' could be 'Howe', which is Old Norse for a burial mound. And entrances, or maybe entrances to 'tunnels', seem to be a fairly widespread theme when it comes to folktales about old burial mounds.

[adelwoods]

I'm disappointed to learn that the stones on King Alfreds Castle only date to the 1700's. Growing up in the early '50's I played there a lot and always imagined they were from some much older time even though I realized they were unlikely to have been an actual castle from Alfred (did he ever leave Wessex?)So while I am being disillusioned does anyone know the history of the stones we called "Giants causeway" in Adel Woods, and the "babbling baby" that was in a wall near the cottages just before the seven arches. I always thought that face was from ancient times too.

[On the Avenue]

[quotenick="LS1"]Oldleedsman, following from your and others threads about underground springs "If you go to the sainsbury's roundabout, face up towards King lane towards Alwoodley the patch of grass on the right, on the oppositre side of the road to the queenshills is always really boggy as if maybe an underground spring or something was there. I think this is poss where the Peny y ffion was?"Coming home from StPauls school in the 60s down at the bottom of king lane before going home to the Queenshills we used to play in the water coming up from the ground close to where where the pub and library now sit - I guess this was an underground spring - also there was a stream that ran along the ring road on the north side which is probably in a drainage pipe now.PS I never new there was an actual castle on King Alfreds until today.    

[tilly]

[quotenick="On the Avenue"] LS1 wrote: Oldleedsman, following from your and others threads about underground springs "If you go to the sainsbury's roundabout, face up towards King lane towards Alwoodley the patch of grass on the right, on the oppositre side of the road to the queenshills is always really boggy as if maybe an underground spring or something was there. I think this is poss where the Peny y ffion was?"Coming home from StPauls school in the 60s down at the bottom of king lane before going home to the Queenshills we used to play in the water coming up from the ground close to where where the pub and library now sit - I guess this was an underground spring - also there was a stream that ran along the ring road on the north side which is probably in a drainage pipe now.PS I never new there was an actual castle on King Alfreds until today.     Welcome to secret leeds On The Avenue look forward to more input from you.