King Alfreds Castle - Stonegate Road

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Sat 11 Aug, 2007 11:17 pm

Just been out to look for the spring at King Alfreds field, and cannot find any traces of it at all. The undergrowth is so high it is too difficult really to see, but there is nothing that I can find as yet. Also noticed on the old maps that the Pen-y-ffion is directly due north of Tunnel How Hill, not where I first thought. The place I though it was is actually noted down on the map as "halfpenny lost". Any ideas as to whether the spring is there still, or has been blocked in, and also what the mysteriously named "halfpenny lost" could have been.BTW Pen-y-ffion looks to be roughly where the Saxons are now...

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Sun 12 Aug, 2007 12:20 am

Hi LS1, there was no trace of the spring in the 60s. Next time I'm in Leeds, I'll have a look and take some photos as to where I thought it was. I'll try to match it to the photo above.As for Halfpenny lost, there's some interesting links at:http://www.alwoodley.leedslearning.org/ and click 'Historical Bits & bobs' and page downalsohttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/YORKSGEN/2004-03/1079894432The latter explains that Halfpenny lost was linked to 'penny found' ie pen-y-ffion!Isn't the internet wonderful....

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Mon 13 Aug, 2007 9:04 am

oldleedsman wrote: Hi LS1, there was no trace of the spring in the 60s. Next time I'm in Leeds, I'll have a look and take some photos as to where I thought it was. I'll try to match it to the photo above.As for Halfpenny lost, there's some interesting links at:http://www.alwoodley.leedslearning.org/ and click 'Historical Bits & bobs' and page downalsohttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/YORKSGEN/2004-03/1079894432The latter explains that Halfpenny lost was linked to 'penny found' ie pen-y-ffion!Isn't the internet wonderful.... Thanks Oldleedsman, thats some great information there. such a shame that there is no visual record of these places.

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Thu 06 Sep, 2007 12:32 am

LS1 wrote: oldleedsman wrote: Hi LS1, there was no trace of the spring in the 60s. Next time I'm in Leeds, I'll have a look and take some photos as to where I thought it was. I'll try to match it to the photo above.As for Halfpenny lost, there's some interesting links at:http://www.alwoodley.leedslearning.org/ and click 'Historical Bits & bobs' and page downalsohttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/YORKSGEN/2004-03/1079894432The latter explains that Halfpenny lost was linked to 'penny found' ie pen-y-ffion!Isn't the internet wonderful.... Thanks Oldleedsman, thats some great information there. such a shame that there is no visual record of these places. If you go to old-maps.co.uk and click maps, then type in the map reference 429400, 438400 you get an 1851 map of the area. If you zoom in, it shows pen-y-ffion as the site of the rocks (where King Alfred's Castle was) and a well just below it. Also, what might be a reservoir, but the writing is blurred.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 06 Sep, 2007 9:18 am

I tried that and it looks like Tunnel How Hill is where the castle was, and the pen-y-ffynion is further north. If you look at where Scotland Mill Farm is on the map which is north west to Tunnell How, this is roughly where the ring road is now, and Tounge Lane as it bends round to the north west is part of the ring road. You can follow this to the junction of King Lane and Tounge Lane. Halfpenny Lost also is along the same line as where the Ring Road is now. Try typing the same co-ordinates into streetmap.co.uk and you'll see what i mean.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 06 Sep, 2007 9:20 am

Just tried it and it comes out with Pen-y-ffion located just off Saxon Road and next to the ring road, therefore Halfpenny Lost is a but further towards Shadwell on the ring road, probably about where the old Sainsburys was and where comet is now. Shpuld have called the pub Halfpenny rather then Penny Fun!

Tony D · Post by **Tony D** » Wed 26 Sep, 2007 1:59 pm

I have just noted the discussion about Pen-y-ffynnon. My ggg-grandfather and his family lived there from at least 1824 until the 1870's so I have been collecting information on it for some time. Firstly the place is not on a hill so 'pen' meaning 'hill' is not really appropriate. On a map dated 1851 it is shown as a small collection of buildings like a farm house. On the map it is spelled 'Pen-y-ffynnon', a very Celtic looking name as various people have pointed out and offered translations. However on earlier family birth and death certificates from 1824, 1828 and 1851 it is spelled Pennyfynnan, Pennyfinnon and Penny Finon repectively; non of which spellings is particularly Celtic and the first syllable is consistently spelled like the coin. In the census of 1851 it is spelled Peney Funnan. On a death certificate of 1857 and in the census returns of 1861 and 1871 it is listed as Penny Found.I rather suspect that the Ordnance Survey surveyors heard the locals describing the place as Penny Funnon or Finnon and being Romantics assumed a Celtic origin. As someone has pointed out there was another farmhouse along the same lane called Halfpenny Lost on the 1851 map and it seems more likely to me that the two names were related , one to a Penny and the other to a Halfpenny

Tony D · Post by **Tony D** » Wed 26 Sep, 2007 2:05 pm

P.S. As someone will doubtless point out there were no birth certificates in 1824 and 1828. My information came from the Chapel Allerton parish registers. Sorry

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Wed 26 Sep, 2007 2:06 pm

So you mean then one is halfpenny lost and one is penny found so you would be a h'penny up on the deal? dont suppose you have any photos of either place. Ihave tried to find out some info in the library bu there are very little references to either place

drapesy · Post by **drapesy** » Wed 26 Sep, 2007 10:51 pm

LS1 wrote: So you mean then one is halfpenny lost and one is penny found so you would be a h'penny up on the deal? dont suppose you have any photos of either place. Ihave tried to find out some info in the library bu there are very little references to either place A more-up-to-date but still anachronistic take is the familiar ' "You look like you've lost a bob and found a tanner"(5 p and 2 and a half p for our younger readers!!) - hang on though, that's the other way round!!!Perhaps the saying should be updated nowadays to 'lost a quid and found fifty p!'[I've always thought this a peculiar saying anyway as surely it's better to 'lose a bob and find a tanner' than just 'lose a bob'!!!]I believe when the new moor allerton centre was built in the early 80's Tetley's wanted a name for the pub [those were the days - new pubs being built!!] with a link to local history and came up with the 'Penny Fun'.