King Alfreds Castle - Stonegate Road

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Thu 12 Jul, 2007 3:27 pm

When I was growing up the 60s, we were always told that there was a tunnel from the area near where King Alfreds Castle was (where there was a sunken section), down to where the Revolution Well is in Stonegate Road.http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?reso ... _76156253I doubt there is any truth in the fact, but would be interested if anyone else has heard anything similar.

rikj · Post by **rikj** » Wed 18 Jul, 2007 5:53 pm

I've not heard that story, but I've wondered why the hill on which King Alfred's was, is called Tunnel How Hill ! So, as with all these things, maybe a germ of truth there.I've tried to find out the origin of the name (Tunnel How) but with no luck. "How" can sometimes mean an entrance to the spirit world. Anyone have any ideas of where the name came from? Someone told me it was the highest point in Leeds and leodis repeats this, but a quick look at an OS map shows that it isn't true. Would have been quite a prominent landmark before all the houses were built though.Here's a pic from leodis showing the "castle" as was, and a spring. Easy to see how a tunnel legend would arise. Must have a look and try and work out where the spring was. With this weather it might have become active again, several old springs have.And here's what the ever excellent leodis has to say on the subject of the castle:The 'castle' stood on Tunnel How Hill between Stonegate Road and the Ring Road on what was reputed to be the highest point in Leeds. It was erected by Jeremiah Dixon (1726-1782) supposedly from a design by John Carr. Jeremiah Dixon made his money as a Leeds merchant and bought the Gledhow estate in 1764. He also became High Sherrif of the West Riding in 1758 and Fellow of the Royal Society in 1773. His daughter married John Smeaton who designed Eddystone Lighthouse. A stone plaque was set in the wall of the 'castle' which read :' To the memory of Alfred the Great, the pious and magnanimous, the friend of science, virtue, law and liberty. This monument Jeremiah Dixon of Allerton Gledhow caused to be erected.' A date is also quoted as 1720 but is open to dispute as Dixon wasn't born until 6 years later. A more likely date in 1770. its final collapse came in May 1946 when one of two walls that contained an arched doorway had fallen.

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 12:56 pm

Interesting about it being called Tunnel How Hill.The original name for the hill was Pen-y-Ffynnon which, I assume, is celtic. However, I'm not sure if that isn't the name for the top of the hill further up Stonegate Road by the roundabout junction with King Lane.

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 1:12 pm

oldleedsman wrote: The original name for the hill was Pen-y-Ffynnon which, I assume, is celtic. However, I'm not sure if that isn't the name for the top of the hill further up Stonegate Road by the roundabout junction with King Lane. A bit of research on google suggests that Ffynnon is the Welsh word for well (although Spring as in water source crops up too). Welsh being a Celtic language. Pen-y comes up with point, hill, edge, top, head.......Hill with a well?As for highest point in Leeds I suppose it depends which boundary you consider and where that boundary was at the time. The current boundary is much the same (if not identical to the MDC created in 1974) but before that the city boundary will have slowly encroached outwards as outlying villages became swallowed up into the suburbs

rikj · Post by **rikj** » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 2:52 pm

Yes, I thought of that after I posted tyke bhoy. Maybe at some point in times past it was the highest place in Leeds.Without checking back on leodis I think that stone structure in the foreground of the photo might be a spring.

FarnleyBloke · Post by **FarnleyBloke** » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 3:41 pm

I've always believed that Cookridge by the water tower was the highest point in leeds with farnley coming in a close second but i agree with you too that boundary changes may have meant they were not the highest "in Leeds" previously

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Fri 10 Aug, 2007 5:48 pm

Oldleedsman, following from the other thread. Tried to find the spring also, I'd forgotten about that. Can't see that either or the remains of it. I do remember as a kid playing there and finding all sorts of dead animals on the weekends and wierd stones in strange alignments. We went one evening and saw the druids there performig a ceremony and nearly chasing us away. Perhaps the name translation is why they go there if it is a spiritual place?Also the Peny -y ffion (cant remember how it's spelt) was a bit further down I thought. The penny fun pub presumably was named after this area. If you go to the sainsbury's roundabout, face up towards King lane towards Alwoodley the patch of grass on the right, on the oppositre side of the road to the queenshills is always really boggy as if maybe an underground spring or something was there. I think this is poss where the Peny y ffion was?This is strange but I'm sure I remember a structure where the castel was when I was small in the late 80s early 90s but I guess not if it went in 1946

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Fri 10 Aug, 2007 6:20 pm

I never saw, or even heard of, any strange ceremonies up there in my time (I left Leeds in the 70s). Sounds good though. Also, no dead animals or stone formations - who says life was better in the old days?The photo above shows what clearly looks like a well head below the castle which, if my memory serves me correctly, is near where there was the sunken section which we used to say was the start of the tunnel - it's between the rocks and the gateposts, above a line of trees. However, it's probably all overgrown now. The 'shrubs' in front of the rocks that I remember are now 20' high trees! According to a map (that I thought I had, but can't find), Pen-y-ffynnon was the high-point ie the roadabout at the junction of King Lane and Stonegate Road. However, it would be an odd place for a spring! The area at the bottom of King Lane that you identified would be a more suitable spot.The only structure I ever remember in the area were some changing rooms at the top of the fields for the footballers to use. We used to climb in through a hole in the roof.Sorry I can't be of more use.

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Fri 10 Aug, 2007 6:30 pm

John Billingsley says, at http://www.northernearth.co.uk/61leeds.htm that:Ffynnon is a Celtic word for well, while pen may be translated as either head or hill. Whelan and Taylor plumped for the translation 'well of the heads' but NiBride suggests it may mean simply 'well hill' or 'well head'.So it could be that the pen-y-ffynnon was the hill *nearby* the well.

rikj · Post by **rikj** » Fri 10 Aug, 2007 11:00 pm

That's an excellent article there, I've seen it before and it shows how much has changed. I've used bits of it for a piece I'm writing on how much drier Leeds is these days! I'll stick it on here if I ever finish it.Tunnels in folklore seem to refer to spiritual ways or routes rather than physical tunnels. Maybe that's the case with Tunnel How Hill. The tales of Druids there certainly seems to confirm it!