Digging up Leeds

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tilly
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Joined: Mon 11 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm

Postby tilly » Sat 24 Apr, 2010 9:11 pm

Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
Brandy
Posts: 1550
Joined: Wed 21 Feb, 2007 8:03 am

Postby Brandy » Sat 24 Apr, 2010 10:24 pm

tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2009/35/pleasure%20grounds%20public%20walks%20and%20open%20spaces.pdf


part 7 sec 44

its not just a silly rule i made up its actually a by-law.
They also sent hundreds of letters out to all there tenant farmers warning them they may face prosecution if they let detectorists on there land!    
There are only 10 types of people in the world -
those who understand binary, and those that don't.
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chameleon
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Posts: 5462
Joined: Thu 29 Mar, 2007 6:16 pm

Postby chameleon » Sat 24 Apr, 2010 10:24 pm

Seemingly, Byelaws for Pleasure Grounds, Public Walks and Open Spaces, section 44:

'No person shall without the consent of the Council use any device
designed or adapted for detecting or locating any metal or mineral in
the ground.'

Or anything very much else apart from breathing into the wind. Looking at them, if enforced as is presumably intended, Leeds would be a very different place and, recruiting sufficient enforcement officers would wipe out unemployment in one go!    
User avatar
tilly
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon 11 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm

Postby tilly » Sat 24 Apr, 2010 10:56 pm

Brandy wrote:
tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2009/35/pleasure%20grounds%20public%20walks%20and%20open%20spaces.pdf


part 7 sec 44

its not just a silly rule i made up its actually a by-law.
They also sent hundreds of letters out to all there tenant farmers warning them they may face prosecution if they let detectorists on there land!    

It may be a by law but enforcing it would be an other matter i still think it would be thrown out of court unless they could prove you had caused damage.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.

Brandy
Posts: 1550
Joined: Wed 21 Feb, 2007 8:03 am

Postby Brandy » Sat 24 Apr, 2010 10:59 pm

tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2009/35/pleasure%20grounds%20public%20walks%20and%20open%20spaces.pdf


part 7 sec 44

its not just a silly rule i made up its actually a by-law.
They also sent hundreds of letters out to all there tenant farmers warning them they may face prosecution if they let detectorists on there land!    

It may be a by law but enforcing it would be an other matter i still think it would be thrown out of court unless they could prove you had caused damage.


I think the real problem would arise if something good turned up you wouldn't be able to stake a claim to it because you shouldn't have been there in the first place!

Plus i like doing things by the book myself i dont like the idea of 'nighthawking' LOL
There are only 10 types of people in the world -
those who understand binary, and those that don't.
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cnosni
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Joined: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 4:47 pm

Postby cnosni » Sun 25 Apr, 2010 1:17 am

tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


Its not about returning the ground as it was,its not about the damage to the surface.

The charge would be robbing the rest of us of our heritage and history,be it bottles,ceramics,pipes etc etc etc.
Its belongs to all of us,not to the highest bidder for the finds nor the personal glory in finding such artefacts.

Paying rates does not exempt anyone from the law,whichever law they choose to either adhere to or ignore.

If such a pretext did exist then i could burgle your house for my own profit,just because i pay "my rates"

Look at the Hungate dig in York,imagine if unsolicited and unlicenced digging had occured on this site in the past then we would have been robbed of a historical window of Yorkshire from a thousand years ago.

Doing these excavations without proper accounting and subsequent selling on of discoveries may see like "founders keepers" to elements of our generation ,but would be viewed by our descendants in a thousand years as akin to grave robbing.

Please be ameteur archaeologists,look for these obscure sites and their currently "unimportant finds" but at least try and appear to be more than some flea market supplier by actually "giving " the finds to a local museum,without profit.

After all a hobby is a pastime,not a career in itself.





Don't get me started!!
My Flickr photos-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/
Secret Leeds contact
info@secretleeds.com
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tilly
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon 11 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm

Postby tilly » Sun 25 Apr, 2010 4:54 pm

cnosni wrote:
tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


Its not about returning the ground as it was,its not about the damage to the surface.

The charge would be robbing the rest of us of our heritage and history,be it bottles,ceramics,pipes etc etc etc.
Its belongs to all of us,not to the highest bidder for the finds nor the personal glory in finding such artefacts.

Paying rates does not exempt anyone from the law,whichever law they choose to either adhere to or ignore.

If such a pretext did exist then i could burgle your house for my own profit,just because i pay "my rates"

Look at the Hungate dig in York,imagine if unsolicited and unlicenced digging had occured on this site in the past then we would have been robbed of a historical window of Yorkshire from a thousand years ago.

Doing these excavations without proper accounting and subsequent selling on of discoveries may see like "founders keepers" to elements of our generation ,but would be viewed by our descendants in a thousand years as akin to grave robbing.

Please be ameteur archaeologists,look for these obscure sites and their currently "unimportant finds" but at least try and appear to be more than some flea market supplier by actually "giving " the finds to a local museum,without profit.

After all a hobby is a pastime,not a career in itself.






Look at it this way any one who likes a drink is not a alcoholic its the same with my hobby just because i go metal detecting does not mean i go on historic sites the things i find a museum would throw in the bin. The oldest thing i have found was a shoe buckle from the seventeen hundreds this i gave to the Fulneck Museum because it was lost by one of there school children has to its worth i would say pence not pounds.I allso go fishing that does mean i go giill netting salmon its not a good thing to tar every one with the same brush.This is just what the council are doing i have been in the woods and stopped kids shooting birds with air rifles starting fires chopping down trees so that far outways the so called damage i am supposed to be doing.The sooner people realize that there are responsible people out there with metal detectors the better.A lot of the hoards that have been found on farm land might never have been found but for a metal detector. They were not on historic sites as you can see i have very strong views on this subject.    
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
Brandy
Posts: 1550
Joined: Wed 21 Feb, 2007 8:03 am

Postby Brandy » Sun 25 Apr, 2010 5:03 pm

tilly wrote:
cnosni wrote:
tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


Its not about returning the ground as it was,its not about the damage to the surface.

The charge would be robbing the rest of us of our heritage and history,be it bottles,ceramics,pipes etc etc etc.
Its belongs to all of us,not to the highest bidder for the finds nor the personal glory in finding such artefacts.

Paying rates does not exempt anyone from the law,whichever law they choose to either adhere to or ignore.

If such a pretext did exist then i could burgle your house for my own profit,just because i pay "my rates"

Look at the Hungate dig in York,imagine if unsolicited and unlicenced digging had occured on this site in the past then we would have been robbed of a historical window of Yorkshire from a thousand years ago.

Doing these excavations without proper accounting and subsequent selling on of discoveries may see like "founders keepers" to elements of our generation ,but would be viewed by our descendants in a thousand years as akin to grave robbing.

Please be ameteur archaeologists,look for these obscure sites and their currently "unimportant finds" but at least try and appear to be more than some flea market supplier by actually "giving " the finds to a local museum,without profit.

After all a hobby is a pastime,not a career in itself.






Look at it this way any one who likes a drink is not a alcoholic its the same with my hobby just because i go metal detecting does not mean i go on historic sites the things i find a museum would throw in the bin. The oldest thing i have found was a shoe buckle from the seventeen hundreds this i gave to the Fulneck Museum because it was lost by one of there school children has to its worth i would say pence not pounds.I allso go fishing that does mean i go giill netting salmon its not a good thing to tar every one with the same brush.This is just what the council are doing i have been in the woods and stoped kids shooting birds with air rifles starting fires chopping down trees so that far outways the so called damage i am supposed to be doing.The sooner people realize that there are responsible people out there with metal detectors the better.A lot of the hoards that have been found on farm land might never have been found but for a metal detector they were not on historic sites as you can see i have very strong views on this subject.


Yes i agree with you tilly. Most of the farms i go on now(with permission)are using new modern fertilisers that are speeding up the way the stuff in the ground corrodes to the point that most of the stuff wouldn't be around in the next few years anyway.

And the normal run of the mill day for me is digging out and removing bits of lead and shotgun caps lol.
Not to mention the thousands of buttons and bits of other rubbish lol.

Lets put it this way the Staffordshire Hoard, the largest archaeological Anglo-Saxon find ever unearthed in the uk was found by one man,in a field with his detector................nuff said!
There are only 10 types of people in the world -
those who understand binary, and those that don't.

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tilly
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon 11 Jan, 2010 2:32 pm

Postby tilly » Sun 25 Apr, 2010 5:08 pm

Brandy wrote:
tilly wrote:
cnosni wrote:
tilly wrote:
Brandy wrote:
grumpytramp wrote:
Phill_dvsn wrote:
And this is the result if your not careful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxmar3l1nis&feature=related
The hole collapses on him, and they have to dig him out lol Wink    


I have to admit watching the first Youtube videos was interesting but I steadily became more and more un-nerved by what I was watching!

Having spent my whole working life involved in digging and working in holes (trenchs, tunnels to multi-million m3 holes), I was absolutely horrified at the blatent risks taken working in unsupported excavations in poor ground conditions.

It would not have taken much for the outcome of the video above to have been much much worse. The buried lads friends would have felt particular stupid explaining to family/friends that his death or serious injury was all for a few old bottles and could have been prevented by digging a stable batter or using some simple shoring?

Lord alone knows what pocessed them to post that at all ............. perhaps a desire to "show the world just how stupid we can be?"

If the incident and practices demonstrated in that video had been in a workplace, I suspect all involved would be picking up their P45s and the employer would have their collar felt by the HSE (for example in the last few weeks http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-e-58.htm )

I am neither suggesting or advocating that they should desist from their digging, just they engage their brains to either form a stable batter (slope) or shore up their excavations ............ thats said they can steer well clear of any of my sites!



Not to mention getting your collar felt by the law!
Leeds City Council Have a total blanket ban on metal detecting on any of there land so i think this will also stretch too digging 10ft holes for bottles! lol


Hi brandy thats a new one to me how can they stop me going on post hill say to metal detect they would have to prove i was doing damage i pay rates to Leeds City Council so as far has i am concerned i have the right follow my hobby.I had this out some years ago with the Tong and Cockersdale country warden he said i could not detect in the woods my answer to him was i would need a J C B to do the damage the horse riders do in that part of the wood.I can see a case if someone dug in a bowling green or flower beds but as for other areas i dont think it would stand a chance in court I for one replace the ground back as it was so has far as i am concerned let them take me to court i would love to know what the charge would be.


Its not about returning the ground as it was,its not about the damage to the surface.

The charge would be robbing the rest of us of our heritage and history,be it bottles,ceramics,pipes etc etc etc.
Its belongs to all of us,not to the highest bidder for the finds nor the personal glory in finding such artefacts.

Paying rates does not exempt anyone from the law,whichever law they choose to either adhere to or ignore.

If such a pretext did exist then i could burgle your house for my own profit,just because i pay "my rates"

Look at the Hungate dig in York,imagine if unsolicited and unlicenced digging had occured on this site in the past then we would have been robbed of a historical window of Yorkshire from a thousand years ago.

Doing these excavations without proper accounting and subsequent selling on of discoveries may see like "founders keepers" to elements of our generation ,but would be viewed by our descendants in a thousand years as akin to grave robbing.

Please be ameteur archaeologists,look for these obscure sites and their currently "unimportant finds" but at least try and appear to be more than some flea market supplier by actually "giving " the finds to a local museum,without profit.

After all a hobby is a pastime,not a career in itself.






Look at it this way any one who likes a drink is not a alcoholic its the same with my hobby just because i go metal detecting does not mean i go on historic sites the things i find a museum would throw in the bin. The oldest thing i have found was a shoe buckle from the seventeen hundreds this i gave to the Fulneck Museum because it was lost by one of there school children has to its worth i would say pence not pounds.I allso go fishing that does mean i go giill netting salmon its not a good thing to tar every one with the same brush.This is just what the council are doing i have been in the woods and stoped kids shooting birds with air rifles starting fires chopping down trees so that far outways the so called damage i am supposed to be doing.The sooner people realize that there are responsible people out there with metal detectors the better.A lot of the hoards that have been found on farm land might never have been found but for a metal detector they were not on historic sites as you can see i have very strong views on this subject.


Yes i agree with you tilly. Most of the farms i go on now(with permission)are using new modern fertilisers that are speeding up the way the stuff in the ground corrodes to the point that most of the stuff wouldn't be around in the next few years anyway.

And the normal run of the mill day for me is digging out and removing bits of lead and shotgun caps lol.
Not to mention the thousands of buttons and bits of other rubbish lol.

Lets put it this way the Staffordshire Hoard, the largest archaeological Anglo-Saxon find ever unearthed in the uk was found by one man,in a field with his detector................nuff said!

Thanks for that Brandy. And of course if i found something of historic value then i would not keep it as for stealing other peoples history they can come around to my house and i will give them all the junk i have found.With me its more of being out on my own in the fresh air and the frill of finding a badge or an old penny if thats stealing history god help us. Ps Its been said before the law is an [edited for content] i rest my case. Pps should i have put donkey?
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
Phill_dvsn
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Joined: Wed 21 Feb, 2007 5:47 am

Postby Phill_dvsn » Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:48 am

I'm in two minds about the whole ethos of digging up the past and making a buck out of it, or if it's stealing our national heritage or not.

It might be council land, but if it wasn't for those guys who were digging it out, didn't have the knowledge, or went out there and put the graft in. Then the stuff would be still buried, It wouldn't have resurfaced, and the Council simply wouldn't know, or care about it anyway.
No one would give a dam about the useless old buttons they find. It's only if anything of any great value was to be found would anyone care.

Afterall the Maritime law on salvage is pretty much on a 'finders keepers' basis. Salvage law has a basis that a salvor should be rewarded for risking his life and property to rescue the property of another from peril. When property is lost at sea and rescued by another, the rescuer is entitled to claim a salvage award on the salved property. There property or not.

Fortes fortuna adiuvat:
Fortuna, the Goddess of luck, is more likely to help those that take risks, and take action!

It's a bit like letting someone else do the hard work, then trying to take there efforts, and rewards off them when you like what you see. So in principle i tend to edge on supporting those guys.

BUT.... The way they go about it should be adressed. We've already seen the dangerous consequences of there mad digging. Also the land should not be damaged in anyway when they've finished. That is not on.
Digging up a known, or listed heritage site would be plain criminal, But good luck to them if they strike lucky on an old tip, or similar site that's evaded the expert historians attention i say.

Just my thoughts on an issue that has many arguments, morals, and ethics!

                                            
My flickr pictures are here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/

Because lunacy was the influence for an album. It goes without saying that an album about lunacy will breed a lunatics obsessions with an album - The Dark side of the moon!

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