The smallest-most dangerous cycle path in Leeds?

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Thu 17 Nov, 2011 3:41 pm

chameleon wrote: ' 'snaking' and undertaking are both legal for us. Bicycles can undertake the slow traffic' I'd be interested in having a reference to the section of the RTA or Highway code where this is stated. Undertaking is perfectly legal for 4+ wheeled vehicles when in slow moving congested traffic, its only illegal in free flowing traffic and the same should therefore apply to motorcyclists who can overtake and uderttake at the same time straight down the middle in congested traffic . Using similar logic it would have to be a supehuman cyclist who overtook free flowing traffic so by default it must be slow moving and congested.

WiggyDiggy · Post by **WiggyDiggy** » Thu 17 Nov, 2011 6:03 pm

tyke bhoy wrote: chameleon wrote: ' 'snaking' and undertaking are both legal for us. Bicycles can undertake the slow traffic' I'd be interested in having a reference to the section of the RTA or Highway code where this is stated. Undertaking is perfectly legal for 4+ wheeled vehicles when in slow moving congested traffic, its only illegal in free flowing traffic and the same should therefore apply to motorcyclists who can overtake and uderttake at the same time straight down the middle in congested traffic . Using similar logic it would have to be a supehuman cyclist who overtook free flowing traffic so by default it must be slow moving and congested. 'Filtering' or 'Lane Splitting'I'm not going to go off searching the highway code for you, I'm not google! But rest assured it is entirely legal for Bicycles and Motorcyclists to filter (or lane split) in the UK. Wikipedia has several links if you read the 'lane splitting' article on there.Thats what I was also getting at with my filtering safely comment, and your comment on a cyclists ability backs me up - I only filter in traffic I can genuinly pass without breaking out the blue underpants. But many cyclists are a lot fitter than I and filter in traffic much faster than I can.Being legal doesnt make it safer BTW and its not always a good option - I often sit on the bike a couple mins in a queue simply as its better to wait at that point.'Undertaking'You are entirely correct, 4 wheeled vehicles and motorcycles often legally undertake slow/congested traffic. It is only when traffic is free flowing would undertaking become illegal for motor vehicles.But a cyclist, a cyclist can undertake any traffic at any time. Doesn't matter if its slow or fast it is never illegal for a cyclist to undertake traffic on the left.

Post by **chameleon** » Thu 17 Nov, 2011 6:40 pm

tyke bhoy wrote: chameleon wrote: ' 'snaking' and undertaking are both legal for us. Bicycles can undertake the slow traffic' I'd be interested in having a reference to the section of the RTA or Highway code where this is stated. Undertaking is perfectly legal for 4+ wheeled vehicles when in slow moving congested traffic, its only illegal in free flowing traffic and the same should therefore apply to motorcyclists who can overtake and uderttake at the same time straight down the middle in congested traffic . Using similar logic it would have to be a supehuman cyclist who overtook free flowing traffic so by default it must be slow moving and congested. '...and may pass on either side on a one way street' tyke bhoy.Wigggy - I didn't intend that you should seardh for me, I thought perhaps you may have something more solid than Wiki to refer to - I have certainly never seen the practise condoned in either the newer or older versions of the Highwy Code which states that the (general) rules apply to all drivers & riders. Section 139 contains rules for overtaking and when passing on the left is permitted; section 187 on hasadditional rules for motorcycles and similarly makes no mention of a concession. Whilst it is common (and as you rightly say, not always the safest prastise), what the code does say is that it's provisions may be relied upon in any procedings which may well be to the detriment of a rider so involved - just hope it never involves me, whatever the circumstances but, should I be hit by such a rider, I'll let you know the outcome of the court case(Just to be clear, I am not referring to driving in hold ups or heavy congestion - I've no grouse there, but about general driving conditions, travelling along York Road for example at the limit only to find a biker passing between you and the kerb or worse still, forming an additional imaginary lane between the two occupied by other vehicles!).

WiggyDiggy · Post by **WiggyDiggy** » Thu 17 Nov, 2011 8:27 pm

chameleon wrote: <SNIP> I know, but a combination of being at work and slightly misinterpreting your message as being a bit short was why I gave the 'I'm not google', sorry and no hard feelings ? (-:Anyway a little bit of googling now I'm at home and comfy reveals:A much better explanation of why filtering is beneficial and how to do it safely: http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/f ... htmHighway code for bicycles: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... 837Doesn't say its legal but if it wasnt you can be sure it would say so.Details of some court cases ending in the ruling filtering is entirely legal (for motorcyclists): http://www.ukbikeforum.co.uk/forum/lofi ... 55.htmlAnd I'll just repeat that I dont regard filtering as something to be done at all times, regardless of the conditions. The nuttycyclist describes exactly how to do it safely and when its not suitable.Like I say its an acquired skill and one it took me at least 2 years of cycling in heavy traffic to be confident enough to do it.

Post by **chameleon** » Thu 17 Nov, 2011 10:32 pm

WiggyDiggy wrote: chameleon wrote: <SNIP> I know, but a combination of being at work and slightly misinterpreting your message as being a bit short was why I gave the 'I'm not google', sorry and no hard feelings ? (-:Anyway a little bit of googling now I'm at home and comfy reveals:A much better explanation of why filtering is beneficial and how to do it safely: http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/f ... htmHighway code for bicycles: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... 837Doesn't say its legal but if it wasnt you can be sure it would say so.Details of some court cases ending in the ruling filtering is entirely legal (for motorcyclists): http://www.ukbikeforum.co.uk/forum/lofi ... 55.htmlAnd I'll just repeat that I dont regard filtering as something to be done at all times, regardless of the conditions. The nuttycyclist describes exactly how to do it safely and when its not suitable.Like I say its an acquired skill and one it took me at least 2 years of cycling in heavy traffic to be confident enough to do it. I think, in essence we actually agree. Safety is the issue and as my wife found (with a full bike licence for 37 years now), if the worst happens - who ever is at fault, cars don't bounce off people, and she has the scars to prove it - even less protection as a cyclist and that wass my forté; I remember once getting a rather hearty 'telling off' from the driver of a bus from which I was using his slip stream, not sure if it was just safety or anoyance that I kept paceCheers Wiggy. More over, a lot of this evolving discussion is not directly relevant to the thread or the forum - we are vering away alot, can we all get back to the real topic?

WiggyDiggy · Post by **WiggyDiggy** » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 10:40 pm

/Back on topic/Just to bring back to the fore the original cycle lane, chatting to a friend tonight she told me the 'Roundhay Environmental Action Project' had originally lobbied the council for a cycle lane as that part of the road was considered dangerous for cycling.Completely agreed with her, then pointed out the utter uselessness of the lane provided as yes it has succeeded in taking cyclists out of conflict with road users and instead puts them in direct conflict with peds.I did search the REAP site for any news on it, but found none. Would be interested if anyone from REAP/had any connections could comment?http://www.reap-leeds.org.uk/

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sun 20 Nov, 2011 10:02 am

WiggyDiggy wrote: /Back on topic/Just to bring back to the fore the original cycle lane, chatting to a friend tonight she told me the 'Roundhay Environmental Action Project' had originally lobbied the council for a cycle lane as that part of the road was considered dangerous for cycling.Completely agreed with her, then pointed out the utter uselessness of the lane provided as yes it has succeeded in taking cyclists out of conflict with road users and instead puts them in direct conflict with peds.I did search the REAP site for any news on it, but found none. Would be interested if anyone from REAP/had any connections could comment?http://www.reap-leeds.org.uk/ Perhaps they've REAPed what they have sown...

simon2710 · Post by **simon2710** » Sun 27 Nov, 2011 9:53 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: simon2710 wrote: I was queuing in traffic down Roundhay Road on my way to work this morning (traffic has only got worse down here since the so-called improvements I would like to add. Low and behold, (really good camera moment) I noticed a cyclist zoom all the way down, handlebars inches from the bus shelter itself. I thought to myself, if anyone had been exiting the bus shelter, what a surprise they would have had!What I don't understand, is that there is a footpath on the other side of that silly plantation (or island?), so wouldn't it have been common sense to put the cycle track down that side and the footpath along where the bus shelter is?.....Then again, I am talking about Leeds City Council here, this is the council that sends out their contractors to cut the grass during thick snow. If he was a thick set bloke with hi viz on it could have been the same fella who nearly knocked me down. Mind you his hi-viz is no good if you can't see him in the first place I bet he was going at such a speed as to cause some serious injury Simon? Someone will get seriously hurt there! Yes he was sort of leant forwards over the handlebars and sporting a fetching hi-viz. He sure was going at a good speed towards the traffic lights.

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 12:12 pm

Is there a pedestrian equivalent of http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Mon 26 Dec, 2011 3:53 am

I've just found this Cycle chat forum post regarding the Roundhay Road cycle path herehttp://www.cyclechat.net/threads/came-off-this ... 91362/Some guy fell off his bike there this month when he slipped on ice.The last poster on page 2 says he too nearly knocked someone over stepping out of the bus shelter. ...............................................................................Quote.''I don't live far from there and on the odd occasion I cycle past there I think I have only used the cycle lane once. Mainly because the first time I used it I was nearly knocked off by someone stepping out from behind the bus shelter. There was no bus there, in fact it was very early morning and no one seemed to be about at all. I'm not sure why I used the cyclepath at all tbh'' ...............................................................................*The council call the cycle lane 'innovative'' and NOT dangerous*Two near misses and one accident later lol