Cow and Calf Rocks- Carvings EM Lancaster 1st xxiv foot

mcnab · Post by **mcnab** » Sat 13 Sep, 2008 6:11 pm

I'm researching a soldier from the 1st Battallion 24th Foot, he carved his name on the Cow and Calf Rocks in 1882, I'm wondering if he was on duty, on holiday, or originally from the area.I have a few candidates, especially as the Welsh regiment were stationed at Colchester in 1881 where we have on the 1881 census a 16 year old soldier called E Lancaster. I have a 36 year old E Mortimer Barraclough on the 1901 census with a young family, living in Ilkley.I have a 50 year old Manchester soldier buried in Salford War cemetary.Anyone good at genealogy?

simong · Post by **simong** » Sat 13 Sep, 2008 7:42 pm

mcnab wrote: Anyone good at genealogy? I'm good at Google The 24th Foot were renamed the South Wales Borderers in 1881, after seeing action at Rourke's Drift and Isandhlwana in the previous year - the film 'Zulu' is about the 24th Foot - and became part of the Royal Welsh Regiment in 1969. They have a museum at Brecon: The South Wales Borderers and Monmouthshire Regiment Museum, The Barracks,Brecon, Powys LD3 7EB. Phone: (01874) 623111; Fax: (01874) 613311.You can also enquire on the RRW's website: http://www.rrw.org.uk/family/index.htmInformation on individual soldiers depends on whether their log books have been donated to the museum and you would ideally need his service number as well as his batallion. Information about individual troops is generally limited to those who were recognised or killed or injured in the course of duty.I think it's probably reasonable to assume that the carver was called E M Lancaster as the trend was to leave a complete name as with the other names on the rock in front. The year is quite significant because it's the year after the Zulu War ended, and also the year that the regiment was renamed, which could put the man on leave after returning from South Africa. He must have been a pretty lucky man as the 1st battallion was decimated at Isandhlwana. Rereading it, your E Lancaster was probably him then - he would have been a new recruit to restock the battalion after the Zulu Wars. What seems a little odd is why he would be at Ilkley: it appears the 24th Foot only became a Welsh regiment in 1881 because a lot of its soldiers came from South Wales, but as you say, the 1st battalion was based in Colchester. I'm no military historian but I wouldn't have thought that soldiers would travel that far to join a battalion in the 1880s and would be more likely to join a company nearer to their home.One thought has just struck me - was High Royds open in 1881? It was certainly used as a military sanitorium in both World Wars. He might have been a patient.

simong · Post by **simong** » Sat 13 Sep, 2008 7:55 pm

I really must learn how to drive this thing. I do computers for money you know.

mcnab · Post by **mcnab** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:35 am

I am a fan of the film ZULU, which is why the carving caught my attention,I googled all that already!I contacted the Regimental Museum too. No records are held for that period at the museum other medals and no E Lancaster won any medals.They told me where the regiment was though:Locations1st Battalion 24th Regiment – from 1881 The South Wales BorderersNovember 1880 - August 1882 Colchester, EssexAugust 1882 - September 1883 ManchesterSeptember 1885 - October 1886 Curragh Camp, IrelandOctober 1886 - September 1887 Birr, IrelandSeptember 1887 - December 1889 Dublin, Ireland, (in camp Phoenix Park August - October 1889), Balls Bridge, November 1889December 1889 - December 1892 South Camp, Aldershot, Hampshire9 February 1893 - 19 April 1895 Cairo, Egypt29 April 1895 - November 1897 Gibraltar10 December 1897 - March 1898 Meerut, IndiaMarch 1898 - November 1899 Chakrata, IndiaNovember 1899 - March 1900 Dehra Dun and Pur, IndiaMarch 1900 -November 1900 Meerut, IndiaNovember 1900 - October 1902 Peshawar, IndiaOctober 1902 - November 1902 Mian Mir and Umballa, IndiaNovember 1902 - January 1903 Delhi, IndiaJanuary 1903 - March 1905 Mian Mir and Dalhousie, IndiaMarch 1905 - March 1909 Karachi and Hyderabad, IndiaSo my boy soldier who has the right name less the intial M was in Colchester at the same time as the XXIV Foot and would have been in Manchester. E Lancaster in Colchester camp in 1881 shares the same birth year as EM Lancaster who lives in Ilkley in 1901, but they seem to be different people as birth places are different. There are no surviving muster rolls

mcnab · Post by **mcnab** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:36 am

+ Highroyds opened in 1888

simong · Post by **simong** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:34 pm

In genealogical terms you've probably done about as much as you can then. You could join ancestry.com to see if they have any additional resources, or look at the Mormon genealogical database at familysearch.org for more information.What interests me more now is why he was at Cow and Calf: if he was a local then yes, he could have been out for a constitutional while on leave or en route to Manchester, but that carving couldn't have all been done in the space of a couple of hours could it? Were the 1st on manoeuvres on Ilkley Moor? That to me would make more sense as it would give our man time to carve his name, and it would explain why he named his regiment.Out of interest I had a look to see if The Modern Antiquarian (themodernantiquarian.co.uk - well worth an hour's trawl if you're interested in the country's pagan landscape) could shed any light on the names but somewhat predictably the entry for Cow and Calf just bemoans the lack of 'cup and ring' markings on the stones due to their obliteration by Victorian graffiti without seeing it for what it is - a continuation of our constant need to mark our territory.

arry_awk · Post by **arry_awk** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 1:34 pm

Cats and dogs do that too! lolNot tried google yet but I'm sure I've heard thatthere was an Army convalescent hospital inIlkley during WW1. If so,It could have also been onein the 1880's, Mebbe the poor chap was woundedat Isandhalwana and was having a stroll up on Ilkla'Moor? Probably getting better if he could climb upto the Cow and Calf!Brilliant Picture,'Zulu'

wiggy · Post by **wiggy** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 4:30 pm

mcnab wrote: I'm researching a soldier from the 1st Battallion 24th Foot, he carved his name on the Cow and Calf Rocks in 1882, I'm wondering if he was on duty, on holiday, or originally from the area.I have a few candidates, especially as the Welsh regiment were stationed at Colchester in 1881 where we have on the 1881 census a 16 year old soldier called E Lancaster. I have a 36 year old E Mortimer Barraclough on the 1901 census with a young family, living in Ilkley.I have a 50 year old Manchester soldier buried in Salford War cemetary.Anyone good at genealogy? do we know this guys rank?

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 8:54 pm

The culprit would appear to be Edward mortimer lancaster who was actually a Leeds lad!He was born in September 1865 son of Alfred an Organ builder(stop snickering at the back!). The 1871 census shows him living with dad as a boarder in halifax and in 1901 he is a forman at ta mineral water works in Ilkley.I couldn't find him on the 1881 or 1891 censuses.he might have joined up.This carving has been discussed on this forum;http://www.ilkley-more.com/ilkley-forum ... tmlhowever I cannot access it as the link appears broken?

sundowner · Post by **sundowner** » Sun 14 Sep, 2008 9:43 pm

Steve Jones wrote: The culprit would appear to be Edward mortimer lancaster who was actually a Leeds lad!He was born in September 1865 son of Alfred an Organ builder(stop snickering at the back!). The 1871 census shows him living with dad as a boarder in halifax and in 1901 he is a forman at ta mineral water works in Ilkley.I couldn't find him on the 1881 or 1891 censuses.he might have joined up.This carving has been discussed on this forum;http://www.ilkley-more.com/ilkley-forum ... tmlhowever I cannot access it as the link appears broken? Hi Steve Jones Ihave just made access to the above site with no problem.I should try again if i were you all the best.