Is this st georges church in this picture?

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polos
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Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby polos » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 5:21 am

http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... SPLAY=FULL

Hiya I've been looking at this picture for ages now and it's really confusing me I'm hoping someone can help me get my bearings.
The picture shows a church in the background which I'm pretty sure is st georges the old spire (pre hurricane).
It looks the same from other pictures and the dates match up too.
The thing that's confusing me is where on earth on clarendon road could this be taken from?
I'm not expecting any other buildings to still be standing (to make a comparison) as it is from 1858.
Old maps 1854 show clarendon road hasn't changed its layout or name and the church seems too close to the artist to be where it is. If anyone has any ideas where the artist would be stood I'd be grateful to hear anything. Thanks
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tyke bhoy
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby tyke bhoy » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 8:07 am

Could it be Woodhouse Square with a deal of artistic licence for the background. I'm assuming that is the town hall there also with scaffolding around an incomplete clock tower. The picture shows pretty much a right angled bend and all other bends on Clarendon Road are currently much finer. The artist is stood on the east side of the road and therefore is looking either South or southwest but St George's would be east and the Town Hall even further east or on the left of St George's
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polos
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby polos » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 12:06 pm

I honestly thought it was the town hall with incomplete clock to begin with but I dismissed it as the location clearly states clarendon road. Also the church next to it is nothing like Oxford place chapel (assuming it was even there at this time).
The bend you mention could be a result of turning sharply
at the bottom of clarendon road there would have been no hospital here obscuring view at this time either.
I find it difficult to assess if the main body of the church is going off to the right (my first guess) or if it's slightly protruding to the right as if you're almost looking at the spire head on.
Here is st georges for comparison.

http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?reso ... 230_168156

At a guess I'd say there's a bit of artistic licence in this pic. There's no way town hall would be so prominent from clarendon road. It still would be visible though with the lack of buildings on gt George Street at this time.
polos
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby polos » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 12:26 pm

Now I've slept on this one I'd almost certainly say that this is the town hall viewed from the back as the stone pillar matches up.
Not 100% if this is st georges though it seems to match aswell. Maybe the line of sight has been altered to fit the town hall in. Still can't figure out where abouts on clarendon road the artist would have been though.

polos
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby polos » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 12:56 pm

Thinking about this now I think it's possible we are looking at the side of the town hall
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tyke bhoy
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby tyke bhoy » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 6:00 pm

Even if it is the side (Oxford Road) of the Town Hall I think the only way that the artist could see that view is from below the corner of Woodhouse Square and Hanover Way which in my opinion is the next sharpest bend on “Clarendon Road”. However if that were the case the artist would be on the Hanover Square side and the procession would be going down hill. It may just be optical illusion but in my opinion the procession appears to be going up hill towards Woodhouse Moor.

I don’t know what the itinerary was but it appears from Leodis comments the Royal Party arrived the day before and stayed overnight at Woodsley House (Now Fairbairn House). The crowds probably would not be that big for the party travelling from the Rail Station to Fairbairn House nor would there be such a ceremonial procession. Also from Leodis there appears to have been an event on Woodhouse Moor and a tour of Central Leeds on the day of the opening before, presumably, a departure the same day. So did the procession go up/and or down Clarendon Road on 7th September 1958?

http://www.leodis.net/searchResults.asp ... D=&PUBID=0

I think the Woodhouse Moor picture is also subject to some “artistic license” as it too appears to show the Town Hall in a view not possible from anywhere on Woodhouse Moor.
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polos
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby polos » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 9:32 pm

I do agree the procession appears to be going up clarendon road which made me wonder at what stage in the journey they were. My guess is that when it says she stayed at woodsley house leodis is referring to the whole trip in general. The only occasion I can think where they would be travelling up clarendon road would be from the train station to woodsley house. A detailed description of the route is here
http://www.leodis.net/discovery/discove ... _484569729

(This creates more questions than answers for me)

They seem to skip boar Lane going from brigatte to Wellington Street. Plus looking at old maps I'm not quite sure how the Queen got to Woodhouse Moor considering resivour st (clarendon road today) wasn't in existence at this time.
I find all of this extremely fascinating stuff.
Regarding the picture of Woodhouse Moor I always thought the building shown was the grammar school although I'm not sure if that existed at this time either.

I like looking at these few illustrations of leeds as it's some of the oldest picture records we have of leeds. Sorry for droning on but I do agree with you about the location of the artist thanks for your input on this
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tyke bhoy
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby tyke bhoy » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 10:28 pm

One of the pictures in my link is the junction of Boar Lane and Briggate.

The link you provide suggests that after lunch and another trip to the Town (Great) Hall the Queen caught the train on to Balmoral.

So 6.15pm on the 6th the Royal Party arrived at a Leeds station (were there 3 in the city centre then?). It then presumably heads straight to Woodsley House. This would be the only time they passed up the bottom of Clarendon Road. The note on your original picture though says that is the 7th and I still contend the crowds would not have been as big or the procession as ceremonial on the 6th. It would also be falling dark by this time (7.00pm ish) in September on the 6th. Actually given it would be GMT (before BST was thought of) it would pretty much dark.

On the 7th from the ittinerary I would have thought that the route was up Clarendon Road but you seem to suggest it was a cul-de-sac back then. So it was down Clarendon Road and out on Woodhouse Lane perhaps via Great George Street. I think after Woodhouse Moor the entourage never went near Clarendon Road again.
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polos
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby polos » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 11:44 pm

Yeah sorry I missed that picture I suppose it's common sense they travelled down boar Lane too.
I find it interesting they stopped at Ardsley station as it's where I live atm and I'm currently researching this area.
I suppose you could work out which station they arrived at by looking at this.

Also I've found a more detailed picture which could potentially solve this.

https://goo.gl/WhaPzJ

There seems to be a street name to the left if you zoom in. I looks like arthur place? to me but I don't know of any old street directorys I could reference this with.

I think you are on point with all this and thanks again
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Re: Is this st georges church in this picture?

Postby MiggyBill » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 4:29 pm

I think a lot of these drawings have artistic license and were probably roughly sketched first and then redrawn later. The Clarendon Road drawing may have been done with the artist standing at the corner of Woodhouse Square looking down Clarendon Road which at the time joined Great George Street. See attached map of 1850ish.
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